A somewhat sad conversation last night

[JamesK]

I love all the folks shooting the messengers.

Way to help your cause.

Care to elaborate?


No, I am not trying to be a butt, I am interested in your opinion.

 

[gypsyjim]

Care to elaborate?


No, I am not trying to be a butt, I am interested in your opinion.

I'm with you.
Maybe it's me, but I thought that so far this discussion has remained pretty civil.

 

[Kingpatzer]

I'm with you.
Maybe it's me, but I thought that so far this discussion has remained pretty civil.

It has, but there have also been those moments where a fair comment has been responded to with something along the lines of "it's your fault if you're offended."

I see the KFC "joke," for example, as suggesting that DIR is merely an advertising gimmick and taking offense at people getting in one's face telling them they're diving incorrectly because they aren't DIR is equivalent to being upset that KFC claims to have good fried chicken. It's a false equivocation aimed at mocking those who politely raised their concerns and experiences in an effort to explain their own feelings towards DIR and DIR divers.

 

[TSandM]

Kingpatzer, that post wasn't referencing people who get in other people's faces; it was solely as a response to the folks who write that they have made a decision that people who dive this way are arrogant jerks simply because they don't like the name, "Doing it Right" (which, by the way, GUE no longer uses). I'll defend the term, but I will not defend anyone who gets in someone else's face about the way they dive, unless they do it because they see something that honestly is just plain dangerous.

 

[Hetland]

It has, but there have also been those moments where a fair comment has been responded to with something along the lines of "it's your fault if you're offended."

I see the KFC "joke," for example, as suggesting that DIR is merely an advertising gimmick and taking offense at people getting in one's face telling them they're diving incorrectly because they aren't DIR is equivalent to being upset that KFC claims to have good fried chicken. It's a false equivocation aimed at mocking those who politely raised their concerns and experiences in an effort to explain their own feelings towards DIR and DIR divers.

Agreed. The thread was started by a DIR diver lamenting the poor reputation DIR has on Scubaboard, and how it is undeserved, and that one person realized his mistake after hanging out with some DIR folks.

Any serious discussions are quickly derailed by off-topic banter, and/or comments about fried chicken and adolph hitler. There's also the opinion that too many people are overly-sensitive because their training programs aren't as difficult as the GUE training program.

If history gives us any clues, those same folks will chime in shortly, telling us that certain people in the dive community have an axe to grind against _____ and that those same people couldn't pass a fundies course, then, everyone will be invited to speak with a GUE instructor and join in the fun of their awesome classes.

If you don't want this type of attention, then don't start threads like this.

 

[Crush]

If history gives us any clues, those same folks will chime in shortly, telling us that certain people in the dive community have an axe to grind against _____ and that those same people couldn't pass a fundies course, then, everyone will be invited to speak with a GUE instructor and join in the fun of their awesome classes.

If you don't want this type of attention, then don't start threads like this.

1. I used to have an axe to grind about DIR. Now, that derision is focused on select individuals and the axe has been exchanged for "the middle finger";
2. I did pass Fundies (rec pass, and just barely);
3. My GUE instructor was awesome and rolled with the punches when I was making jokes about GUE/DIR; and
4. I think that this thread has been very informative to newer SB members.

 

[Hetland]

Kingpatzer, that post wasn't referencing people who get in other people's faces; it was solely as a response to the folks who write that they have made a decision that people who dive this way are arrogant jerks simply because they don't like the name, "Doing it Right" (which, by the way, GUE no longer uses). I'll defend the term, but I will not defend anyone who gets in someone else's face about the way they dive, unless they do it because they see something that honestly is just plain dangerous.

It is unfair to think someone is an arrogant jerk because of the way they dive, but I also think you're throwing too much in the pot there. There are plenty of folks who follow DIR principals, and use DIR-like equipment configurations, who wouldn't consider themselves "DIR Divers". Giving yourself that designation sets you apart.

"I'm a DIR diver"
"I'm a GUE diver"
"I'm a PADI diver"

No one cares. (except maybe a newer diver) It's like bringing up religion or politics. So even without the history, things have started off on the wrong foot. You've drawn your line in the sand. People who know the history, or who have had first-hand experiences with some of the less-pleasant DIR-associated folks will simply add that to the column of negatives.

Why is it necessary to ever tell anyone that you are a "DIR diver" in a recreational setting? Whenever I dive with someone new, I explain my regulator set up, and the procedure for sharing air if things go South. I don't tell them that I dive a bastardized DIR regulator set up, and that I'm a regular spearfisherman, and that I've found a five-foot hose works better for me because of where I clip my dead fish, and that the shorter hose fits closer to my body, which decreases drag, and the possibility of entanglement and that they shouldn't be diving an integrated secondary/inflator, and that split fins are no good because they might become entangled. If I did that, I'd probably look like an arrogant jerk.

 

[boulderjohn]

When other organizations say that do chicken right, dive rite, or are the way the world learns to dive, everyone thinks of those phrases as mere slogans and pays little attention. If, on the other hand, people from KFC were to go into Chick Fil-A restaurants and tell all the customers that Chick Fil-A was doing chicken wrong, warning them that they really needed to go to KFC so that they could get their chicken done right and avoid potential serious consequences, some people would stop seeing it as a mere slogan and would start to get irritated. I mentioned earlier the story of the DIR diver who was applying for a job at a major tech-oriented dive shop and who made sure the owner knew that the Dive Rite gear he was selling was not safe, implying that it should be called Dive Wrong instead. When that sort of thing happens, people stop seeing DIR as a mere slogan and start to get irritated.

Earlier in the thread Dan said that one of the virtues of DIR is that its proponents are altruistically motivated to help people learn to dive correctly. Done without proper tact, it can be perceived as neither altruism nor a virtue.

 

[Scott L]

Earlier in the thread Dan said that one of the virtues of DIR is that its proponents are altruistically motivated to help people learn to dive correctly. Done without proper tact, it can be perceived as neither altruism nor a virtue.

Conservation concerns probably should trump bruised ego's IMO...

 

[TSandM]

Hetland, I can't ever remember telling anyone in a recreational dive setting (or any other setting) that I was a DIR diver. I have told people with whom I was discussing cave diving together that I am GUE-trained, because it's a shorthand way of conveying what set of protocols I was taught and use. (One of the nice things about the system, in my view )

However, the group that holds the Wednesday dives is called GUE-Seattle, which makes it rather obvious where we come from, and that's why the fellow I quoted in the beginning just knew we were obnoxious. Why do we call it GUE-Seattle? Well, because we're all GUE members and like GUE, just like somebody else might wear PADI patches. Humans love to belong to things.