A somewhat sad conversation last night

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"Only a card-carrying stroke would do something like this, and showing up with 80/20 is no different than wearing a sign on your back saying 'I am a stroke, and have the papers to prove it'. It announces to all the world that you have no clue, kind of like wearing clip-on suspenders or having dog dirt on your shoes."​

I think it is quotes like this and so many others that GI3 has made in the past that go a long way to explaining why DIR is viewed so negatively by so many. GUE has tried to distance itself from this type of stuff but they still have a long way to go.
 
I have never been to that website before, and while I agree with the content (for the most part), I don't agree with the presentation, a lot of it does come across as arrogant rather than constructive.

point well made!
 
[ GUE has tried to distance itself from this type of stuff but they still have a long way to go.

The problem is that it is hard to distance yourself from it when your own followers keep bringing it up. GUE does not use the term DIR any more. If I were a member of GUE, I wouldn't, either. If asked, I would say that it was part of our past, but the term is no longer used. I would further say that some of the attitudes and approaches of that past are no longer a part of our experience. If I were in the GUE hierarchy, I would send out a clear message to the membership regarding that.
 
The mystic of GUE cuts both ways. I would imagine far, far more divers are drawn to GUE as they are, by any measure, an (the) elite training agency. If some folks are not interested in the time, effort or expense to pursue, they can join the majority of Tec divers who have gravitated to other training agencies who have been around for decades...
 
I fully agree that there has been an obvious and concerted effort to make DIR less confrontational and controversial. So why do these attitudes still seem to exist?

One reason is that, like Typhoid Mary, one person can spread a lot of disease. The incident I mentioned above happened only a couple of months ago. How many more people has that one person similarly confronted in his attempts to help them? He really pissed off the person who told me about it--how many others has this one person similarly affected?

Another problem is that many of the caustic words of the past are still in use via the magic of the Internet. When I learned decompression, I was taught that there were 13 reasons that a DIR diver does not use 80% O2 for deco. Those 13 reasons were created long ago, but they are still being quoted in instruction today. Here is a DIR-based web site that keeps those reasons prominently displayed for its customers. A quick Google search showed that those same 13 reasons can be found in many places today, so they are still a part of the culture. The shop I mentioned above banks 80% O2 because of the large demand of its customers--how tactful do you think they find it to be told that one of the reasons that they are wrong in doing so is that
"Only a card-carrying stroke would do something like this, and showing up with 80/20 is no different than wearing a sign on your back saying 'I am a stroke, and have the papers to prove it'. It announces to all the world that you have no clue, kind of like wearing clip-on suspenders or having dog dirt on your shoes."​

Finally, even more cautious words can be misconstrued or taken to an extreme. For example, an Internet search reveals an article by Dan Volker describing how DIR divers can make recreational divers better. In the final section it talks about the importance of all buddies on a team diving with the same gear, meaning BP/Ws and long hoses. It says,
And of course, keep in mind an even bigger rule than all others mentioned in this article--Rule number one is don't dive with unsafe divers. Try to dive only with people you know are safe, and who dive the same procedures and configurations you do. If you are "stuck" with someone you see gearing up badly, with a poor configuration, try a good natured explanation of why the "Doing it Right" system would have him/her configured differently.

A DIR diver reading this gets a clear message that if he is "stuck" diving with someone who is not DIR, then he or she has a mission to help that person understand why it is better to be a DIR diver. The message should be delivered good naturedly, but it should be delivered. The non-DIR diver reading this gets the clear message that a DIR diver feels "stuck" in that choice of partner, and knows that a good natured lecture will be coming. The goal might be to help, but there are those who will not appreciate it, and there are those who will naturally fear a coming dive with someone they know to be DIR.

John, you do realize that the article was written well over a decade ago, and that at the time, the issues we were dealing with were quite different than the issues today....But, at least is does show I was not purposely being mean and nasty to recreational divers....:) In the context of this article you found....imagine you find yourself on a boat, and the buddy you are about to be assigned to dive with, has his tank hanging 8 inches below his butt.....he has his octopus hanging behind him where he could not find it, and a console dragging on the floor as he walks on the boat. You further see that he is wearing about 30 pounds of lead, but with a shortie and little body fat, you are reasonably certain he is overweighted to a dangerous level......In fact, this was a picture we were often presented with...So what would you do? Would you say hi, I'm your buddy, and leave it at that, or would you offer more?
This was the context....for someone trying to be DIR, the idea is to find safe buddies that think along the lines you do, and wear gear you would know how to help them with, and vice versa.....In this example now, this real life charicature would really NOT be someone a new DIR interested AOW diver "should" dive with...Maybe fine if it was you, or some other DM or instructor, or long time diver with big skills....not so much for a new diver trying to use DIR to become a better diver.

Sometimes being polite, and saying "it's all good , mann " is not such a good thing. I am saying be polite, but don't ignore or lie if you see serious problems.
 
Hetland, I can't ever remember telling anyone in a recreational dive setting (or any other setting) that I was a DIR diver. I have told people with whom I was discussing cave diving together that I am GUE-trained, because it's a shorthand way of conveying what set of protocols I was taught and use. (One of the nice things about the system, in my view :) ).

Me neither. I'll dive with pretty much anyone in benign conditions, with nary a comment about my gear or training unless asked. OTOH for any "serious" dives (which includes no deco dives in open ocean as off Jersey), I want to know that my teammate has a safety- and team-conscious attitude, sufficient skills, and a common set of signals for communication. Knowing that they are GUE/UTD trained raises the probability of compatibility substantially, but I know GUE-trained sivers I wouldn't feel comforable with and non-DIR divers I would.

Like Lynne, though, I find the vetting process (which is not at all an "elite" thing just a pragmatic one, and which is practiced at least as stringently by most Jersey divers in my experience--just based on who trained you or vouches for you) to be greatly accelerated by a common set of training standards. Those standards mean I can dive in the West coast, the East coast, Switzerland, France, wherever, and not need many dives to get comfortable with my buddy. Perhaps it should be named DIC instead (doing it consistent). But the West coast is the most fun :)
 
Does anyone know what George was on about with his reference to Asthma in that rant?

12.If there is some problem with your deco or you otherwise develop symptoms and need oxygen either on the surface or back in the water, it is silly to have not had it there all along. 80/20 is a joke for that purpose, unless you have asthma, in which case any accelerated oxygen mix would be a nightmare.
 
I care what agency you trained with, since if it is the same as mine, then I know that we are trained using similar procedures including hand signals, if it is a different agency, then we will have a little longer conversation during the predive check, but neither would stop me from diving with you.

I'm a YMCANAUITDIGUEIANTDNSS-CDS diver ... what would you like to talk about ... :D

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

---------- Post added April 18th, 2012 at 04:15 PM ----------

I have never been to that website before, and while I agree with the content (for the most part), I don't agree with the presentation, a lot of it does come across as arrogant rather than constructive.

point well made!
What's funny about that website ... downright freak'n hilarious, in fact ... is that if you go to their home page they're advertising IANTD deep air classes ... :shocked2:

As Cyndi Lauper so famously put it, money changes everything ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
 
I'm a YMCANAUITDIGUEIANTDNSS-CDS diver ... what would you like to talk about ... :D

If you said that to me, my first response would be "holy crap!" and then I would be looking to learn something from you.

Before I get beat up with posts about how there are a lot of divers with a lot of experience and haven't trained with a bunch of different agencies, I'm looking to learn something from every diver I get paired up with.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/teric/

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