a retreat from DIR

[MonkSeal]

MonkSeal, it was not a one person event that turned me off but a collective thing by 99.9% of the SB DIR divers. Didn't mean it sound like a personal attack on you.

Well, you pointed to my post (which was BTW totaly harmful). I don't see where you got this 99.9%. I've read almost every post in DIR forum and I haven't got this feeling.

Let's look at your post again and see if it could be handled a different way.

Why couldn't the response have been:
Well that may work but not in the context of the DIR system so if you are striving to be a DIR diver the answer is no, if you have no desire be DIR, then yes, that may work for you. You'll have to decide if the advantages outweigh the disadvantages.

Your scenario contains extended and more polite answer (which is of course better) but basicaly it's as same as mine. My idea was not to develop customer care conversation scenario but to briefly describe usual discussion development path.

 

[Soggy]

So what I'm reading here is that DIR is the only way to dive and that is what people should be learning when they come here?

Total BS...

*sigh*

No, what you are reading is that if you ask someone for the perspective from the DIR point of view, you will get it. Everyone knows that DIR divers believe that DIR is the best way to dive. If they didn't believe that, they wouldn't be diving DIR, they'd be diving some other way. That doesn't mean it's the only way to dive, it just means that those who dive that way believe it to be the best way for them and their team.

 

[MonkSeal]

So what I'm reading here is that DIR is the only way to dive and that is what people should be learning when they come here?

You realy have a talent to read something that's not written.

 

[Jasonmh]

:... I've always thought DIR was supposed to be helpful and help improve dive skills. It doesn't seem that all DIR divers follow that mantra.

I am sorry that you feel that way. Please read post 197, where I summarize all the DIR answers given (remember, the OP asked for the DIR viewpoint). Read ALL the post from DIR-Atlanta, do you really feel that these were not intended to be helpful?

:... Why does everyone have to be DIR? I know this isn't DIR, but different environments call for different configurations. DIR doesn't work everywhere or for everyone.

Of course not everyone has to be DIR, and several people, including myself, multiple times in this thread have said so. He asked for the DIR perspective, he got it, if he doesn't like the answers, that is fine. He is free to make up his own mind.
Actually, IMO, it does work everywhere for everyone if one follows it. I would say more that "not everyone is going to agree with it", and that is fine.

:... What's the big deal?

It's not.

:... trolling all the threads.

Hardly, the DIR people were just providing answers and explainations that were ASKED for by the OP.

:... Can't we all just get along?

I wish

 

[Vayu]

So many people here foam at the mouth that I wonder why we don't have rabies. The mitigating factor is that no one I can see is afraid of the water.

Really, the politics of this is a non-issue. What is an issue is best safe practices and what is known to work vs. what is experimental. It doesn't mean that the new way won't work. As I mentioned before though, do not overestimate familiarity and consistency. Whatever people out there choose to dive, make sure it works and do it often. Make sure the team understands why its there.

Andy, I'm not a cave diver so maybe I'm just not getting it. Could you illustrate the passages that are becoming an entanglement issue on your light cord when its routed to the left hand?

 

[Jason B]

Your scenario contains extended and more polite answer (which is of course better) but basicaly it's as same as mine.

That was my point. Why not be polite?
That's what turned me off to DIR, the attitude of the divers. I don't care to be associated with people of such character, regardless of their diving skills.

 

[DIR-Atlanta]

Well that may work but not in the context of the DIR system so if you are striving to be a DIR diver the answer is no, if you have no desire be DIR, then yes, that may work for you. You'll have to decide if the advantages outweigh the disadvantages.

I'd like to comment on this, possibly at the risk of undoing some of the "Good Karma" that I have (hopefully) tried to bring into this discussion.

The "image problem" of DIR typically comes from DIR divers who extrapolate from the belief that "DIR is the best system for me" to "DIR is the best system for everyone" to "DIR is the best system, period". More often than not, that comes across as arrogance and posturing, which only serves to turn people off.

I personally try and resist the temptation to do that, and ordinarily try to explain the system's advantages just based on its own merits. I've found that if I make statements that are interpreted as judgemental, then that puts people on the defensive, and as a result they are likely to shut down to any further discourse on the subject.

If I am pressed, however, then I will admit that I actually do feel that DIR is the overall best system for most types of diving, and I would guess that most other DIR divers feel the same way. I therefore feel that it would be kind of hypocritical for me to tell someone "that may work for you" - almost like I am condoning their decision to do something that I feel is wrong. I try not to put myself in situations where I feel forced to do that, but sometimes it is hard to avoid.

The whole "DIR vs anti-DIR" thing is a lot like religion - I don't have to believe the same as you, and you don't have to believe the same as me. I am free to try and convince you that my way is "right", just as you are free to try and convince me that your way is "right". However, there is no reason why we cannot each respect the other's decision to worship (or dive ) in a particular way. Ultimately it is an individual's choice on which way to go, and I will always try to respect another person's right to make that choice, even if I believe it is the wrong one (and as if things are not bad enough in this thread, now I have opened the possibility of a religious war )

I recognize that not everyone will embrace the DIR philosophy as I have, and I believe that people are free to dive whatever way they feel like diving, and with whomever they wish to dive with. If I feel that a person is completely unsafe, then I always have the option of refusing to dive with them, just as they have the option of refusing to dive with me. I would not take offense at that, and would hope that they would not either.

In reality, I can almost always find an excuse to go diving with someone, even if they are not DIR. I'd just scale down the level of what I would be willing to do with a non-DIR diver. I'd probably be comfortable doing a shallow, warm water reef dive with almost anyone, but I'd pick my buddies very carefully for something more demanding such as a cave dive.

Ultimately, I believe that "leadership by example" is the way to go in this situation. People always seem to appreciate a high level of skill when they see it in the water, and they start asking questions, and then sometimes that gets them on the road to being better divers. Not everyone will go so far as becoming a GUE Rebreather diver (or even taking a Fundamentals course, for that matter), but if their diving (and enjoyment of diving) improves as a result of their interaction with me, well then sometimes maybe that will have to be enough.

 

[cerich]

well said.

what saddens me is that solutions were raised that are being missed because it's more fun to sling stuff and bicker.

 

[MonkSeal]

That was my point. Why not be polite?
That's what turned me off to DIR, the attitude of the divers. I don't care to be associated with people of such character, regardless of their diving skills.

Strong opinion on some subject and lack of sugar-coat (I borrowed this from Soggy)doesn't imply bad character. Internet discussions (even the hardest ones) don't necessarry reflect the characters of participants. Meet someone in real life and then judge his/her character. Stating that you made up your mind about characters of group of people and about your way of divind based on Internet discussion is little bit frivolous.

 

[Jason B]

No, what you are reading is that if you ask someone for the perspective from the DIR point of view, you will get it. Everyone knows that DIR divers believe that DIR is the best way to dive. If they didn't believe that, they wouldn't be diving DIR, they'd be diving some other way. That doesn't mean it's the only way to dive, it just means that those who dive that way believe it to be the best way for them and their team.

I agree with that statement 100% and I see no problem with it. It's the attitude with which it's usually presented that sends me off. That was the point I was getting at when I made the comment to MonkSeal. I had no problem with someone expressing their ideas, thoughts, and opinions. It's all about the attitude.

This thread is pretty pointless because of that. He should have left the whole DIR part out of the heading since he was not a DIR diver to begin with.

I leave you guys to your DIR oasis. Dive safe!