A question regarding multi colour LP hoses.

[metridium]

And then there's the third approach commonly seen in rec diving: donating the primary (on whatever size hose) and switching to your Air2.

Whatcha going to do in that case?

 

[Jarhead]

There are 2 or 3 schools of thought regarding regulators/hoses.

I'm curious. The long hose/necklaced reg makes sense, but what agency teaches it other than GUE/DIR? Why not?

Jarhead

 

[DiveRite-SW]

I agree with ya, Metriduim. I agree. And I also agree with the idea of the AIR2-concept. Different strokes for ....

Perhaps I wasn't clear in my post, but what I was trying to say in general about the different configurations was that one (and their buddy) should be aware, and competent, in the deployment and usage of such tools. An emergency is not the time to be discussing what goes where. And that's where the training/practice comes in.

Rocket-science? Just ask the Apollo-13 guys about the usefulness of training and practice.

Why do you dive a long-hose? And how long is it? Where do you secure the alternate? Does your buddy dive the same configuration? No slam, just curious.

 

[metridium]

Originally posted by ronbo
Perhaps I wasn't clear in my post, but what I was trying to say in general about the different configurations was that one (and their buddy) should be aware, and competent, in the deployment and usage of such tools. An emergency is not the time to be discussing what goes where. And that's where the training/practice comes in.

Agree on that. I'd interpreted what you'd written to mean "Long Hose = Tech Only" and "Agency-based training is required to use other systems". I'm PADI trained, but, to quote Monty Python, "I got better!" No, I have no tech or DIRF training. The long-hose approach just makes more sense to me than the other two.

Originally posted by ronbo
Rocket-science? Just ask the Apollo-13 guys about the usefulness of training and practice.

I practice valve shutdowns (not easy with H-valves) and reg exchanges every dive lately, even the solo ones. But it certainly doesn't seem like something I need specific agency training for; practice is enough. We're talking about muscle memory, not higher mathematical functions.

Originally posted by ronbo
Why do you dive a long-hose? And how long is it? Where do you secure the alternate? Does your buddy dive the same configuration? No slam, just curious.

I use a 5' hose for greater flexibility in an OOA (can keep a potentially panicked diver at arms-length, can swim side-by-side, easier to shoot a marker, etc.) and for the inherent streamlining from having it wrapped around me. I'm considering going with a 6' or 7' for a bit more flexibility though, as the new coldwater configuration I'm using has taken up almost all the slack in the system.

My most frequent buddy has the same setup. When traveling alone, I demonstrate how the system works to assigned buddies and tell them just to grab the reg I'm using if they're OOA. I prefer diving solo to having assigned buddies, though.

Edited to add: The alternate is bungeed around my neck, so all I have to do when an OOA diver comes up to me is hand off the primary and duck my head to free the hose. When I duck, the alternate is right there at my mouth, so there's no wasted motion.

 

[roakey]

Originally posted by Jarhead
I'm curious. The long hose/necklaced reg makes sense, but what agency teaches it other than GUE/DIR? Why not?

GUE, NAUI Tec, and PADI TecRec to some extent.

The reason it isn't being adopted faster and more globally in the recreational arena is because of "litigation paralysis." Rather than going into it again here, see:

http://www.scubaboard.com/t10022/s.html

For a long discussion on which hose to donate and what causes an organization to suffer from litigation paralysis.

Though due to a hiccup on the board a rather long and detailed response of mine disappeared from the thread. One of these days I'll see if I can recreate it.

Just to sound like a broken record I'll once again point out that so called "tec" divers don't do things differently from recreational divers just because we want to be different, we do it because it's better. These techniques are 100% applicable to recreational diving to make recreational diving safer, easier and more fun.

You folks that dive with SPGs, BCs and octos -- they were all "technical" equipment at one point in time and the whine "but that's TECHNICAL equipment, I'm a RECREATIONAL diver!" was being aired then, too.

If you recreational folks want to discover a safer, easier and more fun way to dive, start looking at what the technical folks do. We dive in environments that are less forgiving and our equipment and techniques reflect it. We want to go further, so we streamline. We want to go deeper, so we choose a modular setup. We want to be safer, so we make sure an OOA diver gets a working reg by donating from the mouth.

Note I'm not saying go out and dive doubles. But you can transition to a long hose, bungeed backup, backplate and wings with your single cylinder and you'll discover a whole new way to dive that'll leave your recreational gear in the dust.

Or you can dismiss it with "That's TECHNICAL equipment, I'm a RECREATIONAL diver!" The color-is-your-most-important-equipment-choice crowd has been doing for every piece of superior equipment that's come along so far, why change now?

It's your choice.

Roak

 

[Jarhead]

Originally posted by roakey

GUE, NAUI Tec, and PADI TecRec to some extent.

The reason it isn't being adopted faster and more globally in the recreational arena is because of "litigation paralysis." Rather than going into it again here, see:

http://www.scubaboard.com/t10022/s.html

Roak

Thanks Roakey! I didn't realize NAUI and PADI had "Tec" courses. Believe it or not, we don't have a NAUI or PADI LDS in this area. But, we have two SSI and one NASE within 30 miles.
I'm working my way through the thread/link you provided.
Thanks again.

Jarhead

 

[roakey]

Originally posted by Jarhead
Thanks Roakey! I didn't realize NAUI and PADI had "Tec" courses.

NAUI has tec courses. PADI has another line of badges tailor made for badge collecting cowboys.

NAUI has an excellent article: http://www.naui.org/pdffiles/EvolutionToRevolution.pdf that talks about standardization, breathing the long hose, no personal preference and no deep air.

This is the antithesis of PADI's approach to technical diving.

You can really see the difference between NAUI, who went to the experts when they started developing their technical program and PADI "Marketing is our most important product" who invented their program on the fly after talking to a bunch of wannabes.

For more NAUI Tec, see: http://www.nauitec.com/ However, I still recommend GUE for the best of the best. http://www.gue.com/

Roak

 

[Scuba446]

Jarhead,
I was an SSI BOW student - and they DID allow me to use my backup reg (safe 2nd, they call it) on a bungee around MY neck! But, I could NOT use my 5ft LP hose on the primary reg - had to use a STANDARD LENGTH LP hose for classes.

Also, Warren is correct - carrying your backup reg IS the best and safest way to go - I believe - and so does, GUE/DIR and cave and wreck divers - and, 99% of deep tech divers - at least the ones I have spoken to...

Its simple, works great - and you do not need any fancy-smancy LP colored hoses, as you many times go by 'feel' and not color.

You simply 'hand off' the PRIMARY reg in your mouth to the OOA diver (needer) and you take the BACKUP reg (under YOUR chip on the bungee) and you use it after donating your primary reg to the OOA diver.

We did this skill on our BOW Check Out dives, and it works VERY well....its fast, safe and effective....I personally won't dive w/o my hoses being non-DIR or Hogarthian compliant...

 

[JamesK]

One thing I have heard about the coloed hoses, not the ones with wrap on them, the true colored ones, is that they are more positively bouyant than black hoses. I have no idea if this is true, so maybe someone can answer this for me. I find it hard to believe becasue a hose is filled with air anyway, and will be positive. If they are, then I could see why you would not want to use them. Imagine a hose floating even higher then normal.