A question about dive instructor liability

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Messages
4
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Location
Canada
# of dives
200 - 499
One of my dive buddies has recently become a certified padi dive instructor. We often dive together drifting the Niagara River. I generally am not a fan of the dive float and flag. Since hehas received his instructors cert. he has been carrying it down the river with us when we dive. I have asked him to leave in the trunk and not carry it with us on our dives. He said it is a matter of liability thats why he carries it. Is it true that he needs to bring it on every dive to not be liable?
 
It is only a requirement to carry the flag if the state/province requires a dive flag. The scuba police nor an insurance company/training agency have any power over the gear configuration in a non-training event.
 
One of my dive buddies has recently become a certified padi dive instructor. We often dive together drifting the Niagara River. I generally am not a fan of the dive float and flag. Since hehas received his instructors cert. he has been carrying it down the river with us when we dive. I have asked him to leave in the trunk and not carry it with us on our dives. He said it is a matter of liability thats why he carries it. Is it true that he needs to bring it on every dive to not be liable?

I have heard that scuba agencies require a minimum of a 2 hour block of instruction on that phrase.:depressed:
 
I have heard that scuba agencies require a minimum of a 2 hour block of instruction on that phrase.:depressed:

It's always easy to blame the insurance company/lawyers when no one else knows what you are talking about.... :)
 
It's always easy to blame the insurance company/lawyers when no one else knows what you are talking about.... :)
Wookie is right.
issue is if something was to happen and it go's to a court, think how this sounds..."as an instructor you know better than most that this state requires a dive flag, can you explain why this law does not apply to you? Is it true that if a flag was present, the chance of a boater seeing it and avoiding the diver in the water increases? As a professional , why did you allow this to occur? ". I can see the instructor getting sued and losing his house,car,wife , dog, etc..lawyers will sue at the drop of a hat. They will sue for a dead rat if there is any $$$$ to be made for it. It's all about cover your ass as best you can, and hope for the best.
 
One of my dive buddies has recently become a certified padi dive instructor. We often dive together drifting the Niagara River. I generally am not a fan of the dive float and flag. Since hehas received his instructors cert. he has been carrying it down the river with us when we dive. I have asked him to leave in the trunk and not carry it with us on our dives. He said it is a matter of liability thats why he carries it. Is it true that he needs to bring it on every dive to not be liable?

Ok, here's the practical part:

1) Local laws are leading.

2) There is jurisprudence to suggest that "pro" qualified divers are at a higher risk of being sued by divers and/or families if an accident happens. This is not related to actual transgressions but to lawyers "following the money" and trying to squeeze money out of the deep pockets, which are usually the insurance companies. The simple fact is that since your friend has insurance he runs a higher risk of being squeezed by lawyers.

BTW, don't underestimate that. I know of at least one case where the DM made a MAJOR blunder (panicked and left a diver behind for dead) and was sued to the ground. His net worth is now probably less than the smelly guy in tattered clothes who collects empty pop bottles at the local park.

For this very reason I have had to cancel some dives. For example I was invited a couple of years ago to do some ice dives with friends and acquaintances. Some of them were not certified. I am not only ice certified but I am an instructor and hold several advanced cards. That would have made me the most qualified diver on scene. I am also insured, which makes me a natural target for lawyers. I had to decline this dive for two reasons. (a) I didn't think they thought it through and (b) if something DID happen, I would be the one they went after.

If I had gone to the dive then I may have been able to reduce to risk to everyone.... but I declined because my ass would have been twisting in the wind. Fortunately, nobody got hurt.

Another example of this is the following: Some years ago a diver who was not qualified to dive in caves dove into one several years after becoming certified and lost his way, drowning. The instructor who did is OPEN WATER training was sued (again to get at the deep pockets of the insurance company) on the argument that if he had not trained the diver in question to dive that he could never have killed himself in this way. Fortunately this was an American case and stuff this bizarre doesn't happen where you live.

The point of all this being that your friend has a point. His exposure to legal action is higher than normal. I don't know why he would start carrying a float now that he is an instructor if the local norm is to NOT do it, but I can understand his thinking. He may have options but I think he should talk to other local instructors to see what the norm is among "professionals". If he's the only professional carrying a float then a clever lawyer will find a reason to make THAT the reason they target him.....

R..
 
We (I, as I usually dive solo) don't carry flags here in NS. For courses of course we have a buoy for a marker to do skills--ei.- Cesa, ascents, etc. We swim on the surface or UW to the buoy without flag. There are no boats here (that I've ever seen anywhere close to the shore dive sites--even near Halifax). As a DM I would always carry mine if diving with a buddy (unless it's my brother, who won't sue me). There are lawsuits here, even with our socialized healthcare. If diving alone I never carry one here. I often dive in the U.S. and almost always carry one for my own safety, law or not. Lots of boats down there.
 
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