seeker242
Contributor
It's not about turning it off, it's about turning it on.
A little help with my Hogarthian bp/w please
- Thread starter Bent Benny
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It's not about turning it off, it's about turning it on.
Right. GUE's "valve drill" for single-tank configuration is to simply reach back and ensure you COULD turn the valve on if you had to; you don't actually turn it in a drill, and you certainly don't turn it OFF.
I think the idea wth recreational diving is you turn the the valve fully on before donning the bcd. Checking to feel if your valve is on is not the first response to out of air, although perhaps it should be. Unless of course you are someone who thinks it’s a good idea to turn it back a quarter turn. Either way the op is on the wrong track worrying about not being able to reach his valve without slackening his belt on a single tank while recreational diving. He can always push it up with the other hand of course. Me? I find bpw for recreational one tank diving unnecessary. BCD’s do good uncomplicated job for diving with one bottle.
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@OMANDIVER why is a bcd less complicated than a bpw?
also you don't always have the choice of quarter turn back, many times the dive masters mess with it right before you jump in....
also you don't always have the choice of quarter turn back, many times the dive masters mess with it right before you jump in....
Ideally, if a diver is able to reach his own valve, then he can be the last person to touch it before hitting the water, even if a well-intentioned divemaster just touched it a moment earlier.
It's also my understanding that the few agencies that teach divers to be able to manipulate their single-tank valve also teach that the first response to being out of air should be to signal such to one's buddy and receive a donated reg. Then, the diver can reach back and calmly check whether the valve is unexpectedly off and, if so, turn it back on.
seeker242
Contributor
I would agree that's the idea. But, that doesn't mean it always happens that way. Another idea with recreational diving is for no one to ever run OOA. It doesn't always happen that way either. Another idea is to never go into deco. It doesn't always happen that way either.The point here being that there are plenty of ideas that don't always go to plan. In fact, it's irresponsible and short sighted to even expect them to always go to plan. Being able to reach your valve is an additional saftey measure for when things don't go to plan.
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I call BS on the general idea that there is utility in being able to reach one's valve diving a single tank.
I would bet that most/the average open and advanced open dive classes do not discuss the diver manipulating their valve while underwater. And for those who believe that it is a life saving technique when splashes and find that their valve is closed, perhaps those who have died did so because they were trying to figure out their valve, this scenario does not happen at 30 meters it happens close to the surface, perhaps they would have been better served by dropping their weights and swimming up? If they have no compressed air in their lungs their is no danger of DCS/embolism.
I can see this as a necessary skill for a solo diver, but solo divers are not the majority. The industry still preaches safety in buddy teams. I think it would be more prudent in an out of air situation to take/receive the octo of one's dive buddy, get the breathing under control, and then have them check to see if their partner's valve is open.
Perhaps the problem that people find with dive masters f*%&ing with peoples valves before they splash is because there are lots of divers that fail to do a good buddy check before a dive and the DMs find that people are often forgetting to open their valves? I have seen lots of divers not do buddy checks or relatively inadequate ones....and it gets worse with experienced divers due to things like ego, normalization of deviance, and confirmation bias...the tendency is to not remark about crappy buddy checks when its not ones own buddy team. I watched a very experience diver come close to losing their tank last weekend because they didn't get the tank strap tight and their buddy team did not do a proper buddy check....they tried brushing it off after the dive blaming the netting on the tank as being old and loose....the reality is the strap was loose and not straight....but the tank strap is something that should be checked during the buddy check just as one should be checking that all straps are routed correctly and not twisted.
How many of us have seen folks skip the buddy check on the second or subsequent dive of the day with the same partner? I see this all the time...this is just poor discipline and eventually leads to problems.
Advocating that being able to reach and manipulate one's valve as a single tank recreational diver, diving in buddy teams, just seems like a fix for a problem that does not exist and already has a solution for it. There just does not seem to be a good reason for a diver to be holding their breath while sinking further away from the surface while trying to figure out IF it is their valve that is the problem....go up or go to your buddy and use their alternate air source.....anything else just smacks of a bit of a rediculous notion.
All that being said, there is nothing wrong with developing the skill and having the ability to do it, but lets not fool ourselves into thinking this is such an important life saving skill for the recreational diver when it is not and their are better options to exercise.
-Z
I would bet that most/the average open and advanced open dive classes do not discuss the diver manipulating their valve while underwater. And for those who believe that it is a life saving technique when splashes and find that their valve is closed, perhaps those who have died did so because they were trying to figure out their valve, this scenario does not happen at 30 meters it happens close to the surface, perhaps they would have been better served by dropping their weights and swimming up? If they have no compressed air in their lungs their is no danger of DCS/embolism.
I can see this as a necessary skill for a solo diver, but solo divers are not the majority. The industry still preaches safety in buddy teams. I think it would be more prudent in an out of air situation to take/receive the octo of one's dive buddy, get the breathing under control, and then have them check to see if their partner's valve is open.
Perhaps the problem that people find with dive masters f*%&ing with peoples valves before they splash is because there are lots of divers that fail to do a good buddy check before a dive and the DMs find that people are often forgetting to open their valves? I have seen lots of divers not do buddy checks or relatively inadequate ones....and it gets worse with experienced divers due to things like ego, normalization of deviance, and confirmation bias...the tendency is to not remark about crappy buddy checks when its not ones own buddy team. I watched a very experience diver come close to losing their tank last weekend because they didn't get the tank strap tight and their buddy team did not do a proper buddy check....they tried brushing it off after the dive blaming the netting on the tank as being old and loose....the reality is the strap was loose and not straight....but the tank strap is something that should be checked during the buddy check just as one should be checking that all straps are routed correctly and not twisted.
How many of us have seen folks skip the buddy check on the second or subsequent dive of the day with the same partner? I see this all the time...this is just poor discipline and eventually leads to problems.
Advocating that being able to reach and manipulate one's valve as a single tank recreational diver, diving in buddy teams, just seems like a fix for a problem that does not exist and already has a solution for it. There just does not seem to be a good reason for a diver to be holding their breath while sinking further away from the surface while trying to figure out IF it is their valve that is the problem....go up or go to your buddy and use their alternate air source.....anything else just smacks of a bit of a rediculous notion.
All that being said, there is nothing wrong with developing the skill and having the ability to do it, but lets not fool ourselves into thinking this is such an important life saving skill for the recreational diver when it is not and their are better options to exercise.
-Z
OP
Bent Benny
Contributor
I have no interest in turning my valve off underwater, but like I said earlier in this thread, there are situations where it could save my life if I were to make mistakes pre-dive.
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