A.B. Biller help SP 48 Paudak

[Sam Miller III]

This was from a previous post of mine--perhaps it will either help or confuse...

Most commercial guns have slings that require about 60 pounds to cock and sears that will generally operate satisfactorily with in the range of several hundred pounds of sear pressure. Therefore a JBL/ Riffe/Biller with stock slings will create 60-120 - or 180 if three stock slings are used as on a normal out of the box stock gun.

However, slings are subject to deterioration, wear, from usage and tension creepage after being cocked or maybe the incorrect size installed by the shop or previous owner if a used gun. Slings also come in a variety of diameters, colors and rubber formulas. Therefore, all these factors affect the sling power of an individual gun --

Most serious spear fishermen of California ( I can not comment on your area) have as part of their amentarium a "sling tester." The slings are homemade, tested on a sling tester and often trimmed to require as much as 120 or more pounds per sling to load, consequently a 3 band gun will require 120-240-or 360 pounds using all three slings. The slings of my choice is the very stable black thick diameter "Prodanovich Hi Modulus." These types of guns are generally long barreled customs and requires a special trigger mechanism such as a Prodanovich, Riffe, Gibbons or preferably an Alexander to operate satisfactory under a increased load, however stock original Cavalero Arablete, JBL and a few such as the one piece Prodanovich/Potts (Bottom scratcher) mechanisms have been used satisfactorily with decreased power prior to the Gibbons introduction and American adaptation.

sdm

 

[pescador775]

The word "amentarium" is not in Webster's. Did you intend to write "armamentarium"? Thanks for the history lesson. I own a Pott's gun with single trigger. Still shoots good. It's well that you said Cavalero arbalete. That old Champion arbalete would lock up under more than 100 lbs tension. Even so, when I got rid of the Cavalero in 1970 and bought a Sea Hornet it was a major move up. I still use them as a light weight wood gun can be a pleasure, particularly with slight modifications of which wood guns are so tolerant.
Pesky

 

[Chad Carney]

Mr Seahunt, you will be able to hip load a 22 X 5/8 band on a Biller 48 but not a 54.
Pesky

Pesky,

As always you have interesting information... but this is simply not true.

Standard Biller 5/8 x 22" back coated amber bands are not difficult for almost any diver to hip load on a 54" Biller gun. Biller calls for 24" x 5/8 bands as standard on their Floridian 54" guns, and they tend to choose power the average new user will be able to handle.

I switched to having Biller make ours from a solid black 5/8 band rubber that had substanially more power and resistance to load, yet the 22" x 5/8 band became a shop favorite for many of our best shooters, all using 54" Billers. Two of these were all the power the mechanism could stand. 24" & 22" were what we put standard on our store's guns. Some shooters and myself even tried out 20" and 18" x 5/8, but we found them to have no real power advantage and they wore out very fast, (us too.)

After 3/4" rubber came on the market many of us switched to 26" x 3/4 for our single band freeshaft guns. Now that's a band with some kick! (I loaded a 24 x 3/4" once... but I think I left part of me on the reef that day, and I couldn't get it loaded the second time.)

Chad

 

[pescador775]

Thanks, Chad. That is an amazing story. I use 25 X 5/8 on one 54 and 24 inch on the other but they are tied fairly high on the rubber so the effective length is a bit shorter. They are just right for stomach or chest loading, not too stiff and plenty of power. However, I think I need a thicker wet suit or pad for the 24 inch bands. My chest gets pretty sore. I keep forgetting how big many of today's youth are. I'm sure some folks would be able to hip load 22 X 5/8 but not the average guy, eg, unless Biller coated rubber, which tested the lowest modulus in history, were used.

 

[Sam Miller III]

The word "amentarium" is not in Webster's. Did you intend to write "armamentarium"?
>>>Med School Speed spelling--some times even after almost 50 years I revert...

Thanks for the history lesson.
>>>You are welcome-- the information is from one of my articles "A short history of Spear guns" and/or in Terry's last book which I was a consultant, titled ???

I own a Pott's gun with single trigger. Still shoots good.
>>>Which one? Commerical or Custom? There were a number produced commerically for a number of companies..The orginal was some what limited to SD, OC and LA and all were slightly different.

It's well that you said Cavalero arbalete. That old Champion arbalete would lock up under more than 100 lbs tension.
>>>FYI They are one and the same. Rene Cavalero was a champion swimmer for France therefore the name "Champion." He produced and sold his first Arabalete in 1940, (Arbalete translates to "Cross bow" in French) . They were first imported in to the US in 1951 by another Frenchman Rene Bussoz. Until Gus dela Valle arrived in 1956 with the Cressi spring guns they were the gun of choice and essentially the only gun for american divers, and after using a spring gun, most went back to the Arabalete. Over the years the Arabalete had a number of trigger/sear configerations, all two peice.

I have probably at least 6 of them..all highly modified all are retired except one which is very highly modified which I use for small fish in Baja and big ones if dumb enough or sick enough to swim in range.

Recall Bobby Weaver? The biggest little man in Diving? The US teams secret weapon...If so I have a funny story about him the Arabalete and the then new JBL..


Even so, when I got rid of the Cavalero in 1970 and bought a Sea Hornet it was a major move up. I still use them as a light weight wood gun can be a pleasure, particularly with slight modifications of which wood guns are so tolerant.
Pesky

>>>I never used a Sea Hornet... most of the wood guns I have used, broken and have taken away from me by a fish I made my self...now use Alexander mechanisms, rest of the gun I construct in my little ole workshop.

sdm

 

[Chad Carney]

I keep forgetting how big many of today's youth are. I'm sure some folks would be able to hip load 22 X 5/8 but not the average guy, eg, unless Biller coated rubber, which tested the lowest modulus in history, were used.

Hey Pesky,

All I can say is... hit the gym buddy!

I'm 52 and my customers were also mostly boomers. My boss and store owner was in his early seventies, and he and his equally senior buddy were still loading 24" x 5/8 all black upgraded bands.

Your first comment was "Mr Seahunt, you will be able to hip load a 22 X 5/8 band on a Biller 48 but not a 54." which we assume meant with a stock Biller band, even though you have no idea what he looks like.

Now your opinion has been revised to... "not the average guy, eg, unless Biller coated rubber, which tested the lowest modulus in history were used", aka a stock Biller band.

I am aware that almost no other stores bought the upgraded black bands that we did, even though they did include them in the pricelist along with the 3/4 bands. But a wide spectrum of users tried these bands and loved them, either 22 or 24 on 54 Biller guns. (We did make sure that new shooters were shown how to radius the muzzle down while hip loading.)

My point is that the average guy with very little coaching, can load a hell of a lot more than you let on.

Chad