900 times more deadly than OC?

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If I was not confused before I am now. Thanks guys. I think when I get to South Florida I need to sit down with some well experienced Rebreather divers. and an instructor. i will be there in a few weeks. Help clear out the fog before I lay out a lot of money.

Join the Florida South Coast Rebreather Underwater Bounders (S.C.R.U.B), the world's largest and most active rebreather dive club, for some dives while visiting South Florida. We allow bubble blowers on many (though not all) of our dive outings. That will give you a good chance to observe the real world of rebreather diving.

Talk to our members, whose experience levels range from "just certified" all the way through experienced technical rebreather divers and instructors. You will also have a chance to see a good variety of rebreather models in action.

Read Jeff Bozanic's Book, which is sold under the titles Mastering Rebreathers or sometimes Understanding Rebreathers. Order Back Issue 25 of Advanced Diver Magazine, and read my article, "Transition to Rebreather Diving." Attend a "demo day" to try out some rebreathers under the supervision of an instructor.

If you do these things, you will be in a good position to decide if a rebreather is the right choice for you.
 
Interesting post with lots of good insight. The power point presentation is pretty interesting too. Although I don't necessarily agree with all of the recommendations, the incidents are fascinating. We rarely get to see these types of reports in open circuit or closed circuit diving and readers can always benefit from reviewing them. Many of the incidents seem to be a result of inadequate pre-dive preparation and checks and inattention or complacency. There are some that also indicate design flaws in particular units.
The truth is that rebreather diving is not for everyone. It is a risky undertaking, as is technical diving in general. It is still a frontier sport on reasonably untested gear. It requires more than average intelligence and attention, and the best rebreather divers operate their rebreather like a physiological extension of their bodies.
That being said, I feel it is a personally acceptable risk and I'm not giving it up. But it is also a tool that is not always appropriate for a job. Sometimes I leave it home and choose another option if I am overly task-loaded with complex filmmaking or scientific goals.
Having spent a few years working in the Caribbean as a young diver, I saw a LOT of pretty scary incidents and a few accidents of open circuit divers. Those didn't make the stats either.
So bottom line for me is my personal risk analysis prior to diving. Am I capable of self rescue? Am I capable of buddy rescue in this scenario? Is this the right tool for the job? If the answer is yes, I will respectfully enter the water, geared up in my rebreather and carry my best mind, body and practiced skills as possible.
Oh and my pet project in life... thirteen years of very active CCR diving and I still do a check list every day.
Not many dead people had check lists.
Jill
 
To expand and hypothesize on what Howard said: Just ask yourself if you are really lost in a cave or wreck and you had a choice OC or CCR, what would you choose? CCR=real benefits. I understand the risk and tell plenty of OC buddies that this thing can kill me.
I don't get to dive my CCR near as much as some that have posted in this thread and respect Jill and others opinion.
From my log: 3 1/2 hour bottom time on one dive in the Devil's system with 30 minutes of deco. So, yea that 4 hours with a total of 14(fourteen) cu ft of gas used. For me the benefits do outweigh the risks. Some people like to work on cars or motorcycles. I like to prep and clean my YBOD.
 
I checked out this thread as I have recently been considering a rebreather course.

I very much appreciate the posts (SFLDiver3445, ScubaDadMiami, RebreatherPro et al.) discussing why rebreathers in many ways can be safer than OC. However, the link posted (http://www.deeplife.co.uk/files/How_Rebreathers_Kill_People.pdf), and a link attached to that (New Page 0), apparently with comments/emails from the Inspiration manufacturer, has scared the living **** out of me and I am now currently thinking rebreathers may not be for me.

I appreciate I have no way of confirming the accuracy or veracity of the links, but nonetheless, it seems like there's a lot that can go wrong, particularly with the eCCRs. Or am I being subject to propaganda. Irrespective, I think I'll give them a miss until I've clocked up a lot more dives under a lot more conditions.

J
 
Not many dead people had check lists.

That is a pretty well made point.
 
I checked out this thread as I have recently been considering a rebreather course.


I appreciate I have no way of confirming the accuracy or veracity of the links, but nonetheless, it seems like there's a lot that can go wrong, particularly with the eCCRs. Or am I being subject to propaganda. Irrespective, I think I'll give them a miss until I've clocked up a lot more dives under a lot more conditions.

J

I think you summed it up in two ways:

Propaganda & getting experience. I briefly examined the doc. and noted that a lot of the listed casualties occurred during the latter parts of the 90's. This was a teething period for non-military divers using newly-developed ECCR's and a few SCR's. Training protocols, flight plans, check lists, vetting etc. were still being developed and some casualties occurred. Many of these early incidences can be attributed to the educational process (training). diver error related to not following, or understanding protocols of operation - i.e. turning on oxygen, pre-breathe, adding dil. on descent etc.

Additionally, you have to decide whether the author(s) were being entirely objective when they used numerical values comparing against the general populace using OC. IMO - not really. 900x vs. what?

Experience. Getting some varied UW experience in UK waters helps. Having dove the UK a few times - it's anything but benign. That being said - there is a huge group of CCR users in the UK and a wealth of instruction to support a UK CCR diver. AP valves is chiefly responsible for introducing the first 'affordable' ECCR to the world. Before that it was the Cis-lunar and MK/Biomarine models. If anything, I'd give it a go (test drive) since you are in the heart of EU rebreather land.


X
 
Mr X. Thanks for the post. I did notice myself that the incidents mainly seemed to be a decade or more ago. Any way of finding out what improvements have been made, beyond training - i.e. hardware and software - for the Inspiration. Training is within my control; major kit failure isn't and it from the links I read it did seem like the first symptom of kit failure was death.

My buddy's calling me yellow for reconsidering Rebreather's but I'll still prefer to clock up some more dives before I do this course, unless I can find evidence that rebreather - and in particular, Inspiration, deaths have declined.

The thing that freaked me out from the incident reports was the level of experience of the guys who croaked it. If they died, with all that experience under their belts, then I'd feel somewhat arrogant to think that I'd be capable of dealing with an emergency given my lack of experience relative to theirs. Don't get me wrong, I'm not being unduely modest, I've just an interest in staying alive, at least for another decade.
 
I think you summed it up in two ways:

[...] getting experience. [...]

I'm surprised nobody has brought this up, or if they did I must have missed it. Experience is
very relevant in CCR diving.

I posit that a lot of new CCR owners are experienced OC divers with mixed-gas experience.
They make the transition to CCR for the obvious gas efficiency reasons, and often assume that
their OC experience translates directly to CCR. The issue here is "running before you learn to
walk".

When I took my basic PRISM CCR course, Peter was very concerned about exceeding the limits
of the training too soon. The take-home message was spend time - a lot of time - learning how
your CCR works - by diving it - before venturing off on more aggressive profiles. Get the
training - don't assume that your OC trimix cert obviates the need for mixed-gas CCR training
(though it will help, it isn't enough).

I try to pass along the same message to my students now.

Form a Vulcan Mind Meld with your unit. Play the "what if" game. Learn what every tiny noise
and gurgle means. Figure out all of the personality quirks your unit has (and they all have
them). Practice your bailout scenarios. Dive with competent buddies. Walk before you run.
 
I completely agree with the recent comments above. The incidents reported in the link go back to the mid 1990's when rebreathers were first coming out to the public in any significant amount.

As I mention in my recent article ("Transition to Rebreather Diving," Issue 25, Advanced Diver Magazine), I first tried a rebreather back in 1995. At the time, I felt that most available units were not reliable enough to warrant my transition from open circuit diving. (The units that were worthy of consideration cost as much as a car, and were beyone my budget.) However, we are now on the cusp of a boom in which there are, and will be, many reliable units in the market. Only after I felt that rebreathers were ready for "prime time" did I make the switch. I no longer have the concerns that I did ten years ago.

Many of the incidents reported in the link relate to components that have since been changed and upgraded. Almost all of them relate to older Inspiration designs. Much has been learned since then.

To anyone getting ready to make the switch to rebreather diving, take heed of this message: No matter how special your mother told you that you are, everyone making the switch to rebreather diving has to start the learning and experience curve all over again. Even the most experienced deep, technical trimix diver must gain experience and the finess of CCR diving before engaging in the challenging dives of your past experience. Before making the switch, enjoy a last deep open circuit dive with the knowledge that you are electing to stay shallow and gain experience in your new life as a rebreather diver before deciding to go back to working up to diving deeper. Then, keep the promise that you make to yourself about remaining shallow until ready to proceed.

Training methods have changed as we learned from earlier incidents. Things continue to evolve and improve. This is the way that it should be.

A rebreather is not for everyone. Do not become involved in rebreather diving if it is not a good match for you. On the other hand, if you are the kind of diver for whom a rebreather would be a good match, and if you take your training seriously and then apply what you have learned to your diving, there are many good reasons to consider making the transition to rebreather diving.
 

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