900 times more deadly than OC?

[nereas]

CCRs introduce additional risks that OC does not have. This is the risk factor.

CCRs let you dive deeper and/or longer and without bubbles. This is the return.

If the risk-return trade-off is relevant to you, such as you must dive deeper than OC permits (over 350 fsw), or longer (260 cu-ft / RMV min/cu-ft / ATAs), or without bubbles (videography/military), then go ahead and assume the additional risk.

Otherwise, the additional risk is not warranted.

With my twin 130s for OC, I can dive to 350 fsw for 20 minutes, or to 30 fsw for 4 hours, and anywhere in between. That is plenty for me. No return on any additional risk with CCR for me.

Plus, I love to dive solo, and often do, for which CCR is out of the question.

For CCR, you need a very devoted dive buddy who watches you constantly, because the unit can fail any second. So don't dive solo with it. Diving solo is probably the biggest mistake the CCR divers make.

 

[ScubaDadMiami]

CCRs introduce additional risks that OC does not have. This is the risk factor.

CCRs let you dive deeper and/or longer and without bubbles. This is the return.

If the risk-return trade-off is relevant to you, such as you must dive deeper than OC permits (over 350 fsw), or longer (260 cu-ft / RMV min/cu-ft / ATAs), or without bubbles (videography/military), then go ahead and assume the additional risk.

Otherwise, the additional risk is not warranted.

With my twin 130s for OC, I can dive to 350 fsw for 20 minutes, or to 30 fsw for 4 hours, and anywhere in between. That is plenty for me. No return on any additional risk with CCR for me.

Plus, I love to dive solo, and often do, for which CCR is out of the question.

For CCR, you need a very devoted dive buddy who watches you constantly, because the unit can fail any second. So don't dive solo with it. Diving solo is probably the biggest mistake the CCR divers make.

Just curious: How much time have you logged on a CCR? Are you certified or an instructor on any units? Have you completed the training and had any significant CCR experience?

I do not disagree that CCR diving has its risks. However, I would seriously question some of the points you raise as to those risks while minimizing or ignoring some significant risks of open circuit diving.

Example one: You are diving at 250+ fsw and following conservative gas management rules. You become caught up in cable, fishing line, etc. or stuck someplace inside a wreck. Even a small delay in ascending on open circuit from these depths can mean significantly more decompression time to the point where you now might have insufficient gas to carry out your normal ascent.

Example two: You are diving inside a deep cave when a complete silt out occurs. You can't see your hand in front of your face. You have lost the line. You are eating up gas quickly. It takes several minutes of searching to find the lost line.

Example three: Solo diving presents its own risks whether diving on open circuit or closed. This risk is not unique to CCR. Many people frequently dive CCR solo. Many people do so on open circuit.

Example four: Rebreathers offer multiple solutions to various types of failures that can occur. Tank neck extrudes? No problem: plug in offboard gas and head home. Computer dies? Switch to back up computer or tables; possibly run the unit semi closed; switch to open circuit: these are all viable options. About the only time that the unit can't be used at all is if there is a complete flood.

Example five: Which is more likely to damage knees, back and body parts over years of diving: lifting into and out of vehicles, climbing boat ladders, etc.? I am much happier lifting and climbing out of the water with over fifty pounds less of gear on my back. These kinds of injuries are very real. Don't minimize the effects of the years. They count.

You make it sound like a rebreather is purposely designed to try to sneak up and kill the diver. It can be argued that a well designed machine that is dived by a diver that follows the rules is even safer than diving on open circuit especially in the more challenging environments.

Risks? Certainly. However, each type of equipment has its risks. However, there are very few people out there that have gone through the training and then logged the hours on a rebreather that then decide to go back to open circuit. There is a reason for this.

 

[Dsix36]

I agree with everything that SFLDiver3445 stated with the exception of the same things tha ScubaDadMiami mentioned as far as the time frame for cleaning and prep.

Gill does make a good point on the fatality instances vs eCCR and mCCR. I for one, know that I pay a hell-of-a-lot more attention to my PPO2 when flying manually rather than letting the electronics do it all.

RB are still safer for the diligent diver - my .02

"Pay Attention" & "Attention to Details" are utmost for any RB diver, if you can't do this, then stay OC.

 

[Dsix36]

For CCR, you need a very devoted dive buddy who watches you constantly, because the unit can fail any second. So don't dive solo with it. Diving solo is probably the biggest mistake the CCR divers make.

Where did you get the idea that diving solo on a rebreather was more dangerous than with OC?

The buddy does not have to be superman either. We are trained to deal with any scenario.

 

[Meng_Tze]

Why is it that reports on both old and unclear analytical bases seems to bring out the need to justify? There will always be these 'scare mongering' reports come out. Not too long ago DAN supposedly reported that RB's deaths had risen by 300%...............

RB's are more risky than OC yes. What is the point of arguing beyond this point?

 

[nereas]

...RB's are more risky than OC yes. What is the point of arguing beyond this point?

Exactly! End of story.

 

[adrisen]

If I was not confused before I am now. Thanks guys. I think when I get to South Florida I need to sit down with some well experienced Rebreather divers. and an instructor. i will be there in a few weeks. Help clear out the fog before I lay out a lot of money.

 

[Gill Envy]

and you think you are confused now... you just wait.

g

If I was not confused before I am now. Thanks guys. I think when I get to South Florida I need to sit down with some well experienced Rebreather divers. and an instructor. i will be there in a few weeks. Help clear out the fog before I lay out a lot of money.

 

[adrisen]

Gill Very

 

[Mr.X]

Exactly! End of story.

I love your pompous, self-righteous perspective with zero creds. As a note, I haven't forgotten the death wish you conveyed to me (CCR) on a similar post. Do me a favor and post your expertise on RB world. A reaming is in order.

X