$90 USB Cable!!!?!

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Interesting... Well all I have to say, as someone who works in the blue chip industry. That is retarded. This again just reiterates how far behind the tech curve dive computer technology is.

Making things resistant to 100 meters isn't trivial but it isn't new science either. Just as designing computers isn't difficult anymore these days, the knowledge for waterproofing devices is well established. Or they could just do what Uwatec did for their depth gauge and pour lacquer over the computer.

Nothing retarded about it - just that low volume production costs more.

The cable isn't used underwater . . . what is your point?
 
@JAX: He's talking about high price of dive computers. Furthermore, some cable are more complex than just a simple pinout. Some need chips that need special drivers. The suunto software install a driver to read the cable. It's simple driver=chip --- plug&play=hints at chip w/ universal drivers --- plug PC doesn't show cable but you can download=simple pin-out.+

I just bought a Subgear XP10 because of this. irDa (it's still an OLD technology)
BTW 32 bit irDa on ebay 10$ - 64bit 15$

People say the cable are expensive because of low production, yes I agree, but not that expensive.
Instead of paying 1$ each cable they'll pay 10$.... so where does the 110$ go?
Custom Idea: niche market products at everyday prices makes a 70$ cable for Suunto. (lower if you buy 10+)

@ OP; you're screwed, sorry. Just use it without the download. It suck, I know.:shakehead:
 
Nice write-up!!! :cool3:

@JAX: He's talking about high price of dive computers

Yeah, but the high price of dive computers has a lot more to do with the fact it's a safety-of-life piece of equipment than its need to operate underwater. Every parameter and out-of-range parameter has to be check in just about every situation and combination of situations as well as insuring fail-safe results. Testing adds HUGE costs to development, and there is no such thing as "good enough" when it's safety-of-life.

@ OP; you're screwed, sorry. Just use it without the download. It suck, I know.:shakehead:

Pretty much.
 
I had a cable for my veo and sold it for 35 bucks to somebody on here a couple years ago. Mainly because the software sucked and probably would not work now with my desktop anyway. All I saw it doing was giving me a little picture of my dive profile- when it worked that is. Most of the time I spent 3 times as long trying to get it to work before getting pissed. I now only write in my paper log to track my dives. No headaches, details easy to enter, and my book does not crash and ask me if I want to log in as a user or guest every time I open it.
 
I had a cable for my veo and sold it for 35 bucks to somebody on here a couple years ago. Mainly because the software sucked and probably would not work now with my desktop anyway. All I saw it doing was giving me a little picture of my dive profile- when it worked that is. Most of the time I spent 3 times as long trying to get it to work before getting pissed. I now only write in my paper log to track my dives. No headaches, details easy to enter, and my book does not crash and ask me if I want to log in as a user or guest every time I open it.

That is hwy I have never bought one for my VEO. I'm afraid that it just wouldnt be worth the cost. I hate the Oceanic software so I hand log everything.
 
Making the cable is relatively simple.

USB pinout and wiring @ pinouts.ru - particular to the USB end.

It's straight serial communications.

Find out more: usb cable pinout diagram - Google Search

Did you happen to look at the link I provided Jax?
http://www.divecable.com/site/downloads/DIY-pc-interface-seiko-dc-v1.3.pdf

Is sure looks like there is more to it than just rewiring a USB cable to make it work. Especially if you can't write your own software and have to install the VID/PID EEPROM chip.

Once that is done, then yes it might be straight serial communications if you are lucky.

By the way, how many have you built since it is so easy?
 
I concede that the volume is an issue with Scuba diving being the niche market that it is.

I would really be interested to get numbers on how many dive computers are sold each year.

As one of the developers of Atomic's Cobalt computer- which does, with a few others, move the dive computer technology and interface design forward, I am probably in a position to answer some of these questions.

Per industry statistics, fewer than 13,000 dive computers were sold (all types combined) in the first quarter of 2011, for a little under three million USD wholesale. Most of those sales are inexpensive basic computers. Compared to any other category of sports electronics- particularly those aimed at mass appeal sports like biking, this is a ridiculously tiny market. A few years ago the handheld GPS market was complaining because their holiday sales were down by 500 million. This low volume means component costs are much higher, even for the "big" well known manufacturers. For those of us innovating truly new designs, this is even more of a factor, because we are using more in demand components, like color OLED displays.

Making things waterproof is hard, but not that hard. Dive computers, at least fully graphic ones like the Cobalt, are fairly complex devices, certainly compared to a GPS. It takes years of difficult engineering effort to design them, as there are no "off the shelf" solutions available as there are for most consumer electronic categories- like the cellphone cameras or GPS modules that you can just plug into your design- it's bare metal engineering. Innovation from major established manufacturers has been slow, probably because this is very expensive and time consuming- it's not like developing apps for a computer or smartphone.

As to the original question, I don't think there is any reason that a cable should cost $90- that's an artifact of a time when downloading computers was a rarity. On the Cobalt, we just build in the trivial cost of the cable and adapter and put it in the box. However, most dive computers don't have a true USB out, so some signal conversion is necessary.

I'm quoting below a post I made to another thread, asking: http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/co...-dive-computers-so-expensive.html#post5927421


The market is pretty good at driving down costs if it's possible to do so. As a designer of an OLED computer, I can tell you that if we could afford to offer it at a lower price, we would do so in a heartbeat. But no realistic increase in volume of sales would have much effect on our costs. I can give you the reasons, including the big killer, which is the realities of scale in the electronics and diving markets:
1) First, not all OLED screens are created equal or are equally expensive. Passive matrix OLED screens cost less, but are typically single color displays. The oximeter the original poster linked to appears to be passive matrix.
2) Active matrix (AMOLED) screens are typically full color, are very expensive compared to other displays and have few manufacturers, partly because the processes have had quite low yields. The entire industry is in the process of retooling now to improve this, and costs will (we hope) come down, but we are talking a few years here. LCD televisions and computer monitors went through a similar process- costs came down when manufacturing processes improved, not when manufacturers stopped being greedy.
3) The one manufacturer that seems to have the best process is using most of their production in their own products, and will not talk to customers who won't guarantee purchases of 200,000 per month or more. For comparison, PADI says they certified about 75,000 divers per month in 2010- worldwide.
4) The consumer products you see with OLED or AMOLED screens at lower prices are either large volume products (almost anything is far larger volume than diving) and/ or are, like cellphones, subsidized by subscription charges that mask the true cost of the hardware.

Most divers have no sense of how tiny the diving market is. If a dive computer were able to capture 100% of the market, it would still be an infinitesimally tiny blip- utterly invisible- in the consumer electronics world. Anything you see in a mass market retailer is being sold at volumes that dwarf the biggest selling products in diving. The unit cost to manufacture consumer electronics is therefore much, much less. Consumer electronics manufacturers and retailers can operate off far thinner profit margins than diving (ask your LDS if they could keep the doors open on a 5-15% markup) because they can have volumes in the hundreds of thousands or millions, even for specialized products like oximeters.

Apart from the screens, it takes a lot more software development and hardware to run a full color display, and those costs must be amortized over a very small production run and with a highly dispersed distribution. Producing sophisticated electronic devices at this scale is very, very expensive. I can guarantee you that the % profit margin on the typical cheap segment based display dive computers is bigger than on Atomic's Cobalt- or any of the other AMOLED computers.

Comparing costs in the diving market to consumer electronics is just not going to tell you anything useful. I wish it were not so, but unless we can convince as many people to dive as watch TV, we are in a small market, and sophisticated design will be expensive.
 
However, most dive computers don't have a true USB out, so some signal conversion is necessary.

I just wish they would standardize on a serial output like the Ultra ReefNet Inc. | Sensus Ultra

Any regular USB-serial converter will work with it. Now if they would do that, you would have a universal interface to download from any dive computer. Of course, why would they want to do that when they can charge you $90 for each cable/converter.

Has nothing to do with production volume.
 
I just wish they would standardize on a serial output like the Ultra ReefNet Inc. | Sensus Ultra

Any regular USB-serial converter will work with it. Now if they would do that, you would have a universal interface to download from any dive computer. Of course, why would they want to do that when they can charge you $90 for each cable/converter.

Has nothing to do with production volume.
I don't think a serial interface (which is what almost all dive computers have) is going to get to universal compatibility- each dive computer has its own data structures and requires drivers. And it would be pretty limiting. A converter is necessary because so few computers nowadays have serial ports. If there is an inexpensive universal interface now it's USB.

Which does not excuse the $90 cable. We designed the Cobalt to interface with an off the shelf USB cable- Atomic includes one, but if you lose it you can get another anywhere for a few dollars. That was a design decision made early on, and the added cost is trivial. We thought that the whole concept of having to pay extra for download capability would not fly in today's market. And like ReefNet, we have cooperated with open source and independent developers of dive log software and drivers. There is no reason others could not do the same. It would add value to their products.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/peregrine/

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