809 feet?

[lowwall]

I have a serious question for everyone who disapproves of endeavors like this.

When is pushing limits okay and when is it a pointless endeavor?

In full disclosure I am all for people who chose to push whatever limits they want as long as everyone involved accepts the risk.

If no one depends on them, have at it. But anyone with underage children who take part in these things is incredibly selfish. I still remember when Alex Lowe died in a winter climb in Tibet leaving his widow with three sons, the oldest of whom was 10.

They'll give you crap about needing to do these risky things to truly be alive. But **** that. In most sports that are perceived as risky like climbing or diving, there's plenty of opportunities to take on difficult - even incredibly difficult - challenges while still having a very low risk of death. If someone truly feels he or she can only find fulfillment by playing with the boundaries of life and death (Agnes Milowka?), then don't have kids.

 

[brsnow]

If no one depends on them, have at it. But anyone with underage children who take part in these things is incredibly selfish. I still remember when Alex Lowe died in a winter climb in Tibet leaving his widow with three sons, the oldest of whom was 10.

They'll give you crap about needing to do these risky things to truly be alive. But **** that. In most sports that are perceived as risky like climbing or diving, there's plenty of opportunities to take on difficult - even incredibly difficult - challenges while still having a very low risk of death. If someone truly feels he or she can only find fulfillment by playing with the boundaries of life and death (Agnes Milowka?), then don't have kids.

How do feel about parents that are in the military? Police? First responders? Better job for people who don’t want kids?

 

[boulderjohn]

How do feel about parents that are in the military? Police? First responders? Better job for people who don’t want kids?

Many professions include different levels of risk. I was a school teacher--you would be surprised how many school teachers are killed each year. Hopefully, those in the more hazardous professions will use good judgment about balancing career risk and family and include factors like a generous life insurance provision.

Seeking out non-professional, "fun" activities with a high risk of death is another factor altogether. A friend of mine is an active mountain climber, and he told me that in the first half of the last century, the people attempting the serious climbs (like Everest) knew when they set out on such a climb that the statistical risk of death was around 33%. When the St. Croix diver known as "Doctor Deep" set out for his attempt on the record scuba depth, he had been assured by the most expert voices on ScubaBoard that he would probably die--he did it anyway, and he did die. The movie Free Solo makes it clear that the people who attempt that level of free solo climbing are most likely going to die in a fall eventually.

While the military and police certainly have hazardous duty, that level of risk is not remotely close to the risk many people take, "just for the fun of it."

 

[lostsheep]

It all goes back to everyone having the right to make up their own decision about risk vs reward. I don’t care if it’s work or recreation.

 

[lowwall]

How do feel about parents that are in the military? Police? First responders? Better job for people who don’t want kids?

Not sure how this applies to diving, but I'm happy to give my opinion (on just about anything ).

There's a scale of risk. Police, first responders and the military are obviously higher than something like office worker, but it's still negligible compared to the type of thing we are discussing here. We are looking at one the job fatality rates in the magnitude of one in ten thousand (so range from 1 in a thousand to 1 in a hundred thousand). Open circuit depth records (and winter Himalayan climbing records) both have fatality rates in the magnitude of 1 in ten. IMO, that is an unacceptable risk for someone with family responsibilities.

Edit: I should add that there is also a vast difference between doing something risky on behalf of the society as a whole and doing it for ego gratification.

 

[tursiops]

It all goes back to everyone having the right to make up their own decision about risk vs reward. I don’t care if it’s work or recreation.

If only that were true.....some seem to make that decision without regard to others, be they family, friends, rescuers, or just observers who think it would be cool to do the same thing with even less regard for the consequences. "Risk" needs to include more than "self."

 

[JohnN]

Karen van den Oever ustanowiła nowy rekord w nurkowaniu jaskiniowym

Karen van den Oever zanurkowała na głębokość 246,65 m i ustanowiła nowy rekord Guinnessa w nurkowaniu jaskiniowym kobiet.

divers24.pl

Exceptional divers
Use their exceptional skills
To avoid situations
Where those exceptional skills are needed

 

[brsnow]

Many professions include different levels of risk. I was a school teacher--you would be surprised how many school teachers are killed each year. Hopefully, those in the more hazardous professions will use good judgment about balancing career risk and family and include factors like a generous life insurance provision.

Seeking out non-professional, "fun" activities with a high risk of death is another factor altogether. A friend of mine is an active mountain climber, and he told me that in the first half of the last century, the people attempting the serious climbs (like Everest) knew when they set out on such a climb that the statistical risk of death was around 33%. When the St. Croix diver known as "Doctor Deep" set out for his attempt on the record scuba depth, he had been assured by the most expert voices on ScubaBoard that he would probably die--he did it anyway, and he did die. The movie Free Solo makes it clear that the people who attempt that level of free solo climbing are most likely going to die in a fall eventually.

While the military and police certainly have hazardous duty, that level of risk is not remotely close to the risk many people take, "just for the fun of it."

People have passions and interests that make them who they are. For some it is a teacher or tech instructor or both. Others it is Everest.

 

[lostsheep]

If only that were true.....some seem to make that decision without regard to others, be they family, friends, rescuers, or just observers who think it would be cool to do the same thing with even less regard for the consequences. "Risk" needs to include more than "self."

This isn't meant flippantly:

Who gets to draw the line?

In your opinion, where is that line?

 

[halocline]

Its kinda funny, but people - well other divers that is - make a big fuss about these depth record attempts but no one seems too bothered / thinks the same about all the high altitude record breaking pushes.

Of course they do, just not on a scuba forum. Go to any climbing discussion board, or to many published books about climbing, and you will read all sorts of arguments about pointless risk taking in that sport.