80% or O2 DECO

[Doc Intrepid]

or the twin spare-airs filled with pure O2.

just to stay on-topic, of course...

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

and I found the exact opposite. I guess nobody believes the people that talk about their DIR-f or tech 1 experience and say that the instructors try to make them into thinking divers. Either don't believe or just ignore the info.

yep, and that goes to both sides of the DIR/non-DIR camps.

Well, I ain't talking about GUE instructors ... I'm talking about George. So I guess I'll explain why I said what I did.

First off, saying contentious stuff about people doesn't make 'em listen to you. Has nothing to do with "hurt feelings" ... he can't hurt the feelings of people who don't give a rat's arse what he has to say. Personally, I can get anything of value I want to learn from other sources ... and even within the GUE program it's pretty much a sure bet I can get it from someone who doesn't talk like George.

I've heard way too many new Fundies grads saying stuff ... and when I ask them why they'd reply with "because George said so" or because their GUE instructor said so. That's just not an acceptable answer. If you don't understand why you're doing something, it's worthless.

Sure, there's a lot of thinking that goes into the program ... and there's a lot of thinking divers that come out of the program. But not everyone comes out of a three or four day class understanding all the why's ... for some that takes about as much thought and practice as attaining the skills they suddenly learned how much they suck at.

Problem is, what they all DO remember is that George said anybody who does it this way or that way is a stroke ... and they sure don't want to be one of those. So rather than really thinking about what they're doing ... and why ... they just do it.

I'm not saying that all DIR divers do that ... I hope y'all know me better than that. I got a lot of respect for thinking divers, no matter how they got trained.

But I am saying that George's style doesn't cause a lot of people to think ... it doesn't cause them to question ... it causes them to accept. Because they don't want to find themselves on the receiving end of one of his tirades.

Everybody tells me that George is a nice guy in person, and nothing like the guy on the internet. Know that that tells me? That he ain't got the stones to look somebody in the eye and tell them to their face the same stuff he'd say to them behind the safety of a keyboard. I've got no respect for somebody like that ... doesn't matter to me how much knowledge he has, or what he's accomplished.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[JeffG]

I've heard way too many new Fundies grads saying stuff ... and when I ask them why they'd reply with "because George said so" or because their GUE instructor said so. That's just not an acceptable answer. If you don't understand why you're doing something, it's worthless.

Sure, there's a lot of thinking that goes into the program ... and there's a lot of thinking divers that come out of the program. But not everyone comes out of a three or four day class understanding all the why's ... for some that takes about as much thought and practice as attaining the skills they suddenly learned how much they suck at.

We are not as far off as you might think. I enjoyed playing internet whak-a-mole with the newly DIR-f'd until I was banned from the DIR forum. So I understand the annoyance of the newly DIR-f'd.

But we will have to agree to disagree about this

But I am saying that George's style doesn't cause a lot of people to think ... it doesn't cause them to question ... it causes them to accept.

I think you will either cave in or fight. The ones that fight..learn, the others...well there are sheep and but they would be of been sheep for whomever they would meet first.

 

[Rick Murchison]

...well there are sheep and but they would be of been sheep for whomever they would meet first.

Oh, I don't know 'bout that... GI's a bit more emphatic and dynamic than the average - and I think the point is that his style encourages (some might say "demands") acceptance and obedience rather than thoughtful analysis and inquiry. The metaphor that comes to mind is that while many lead their sheep, GI herded his.
I haven't heard much from him lately - I think he's burried in other endeavors now, mostly.
Rick (I still use 80% whenever I want to)

 

[Dan Gibson]

Are you just joking or did you really hear this?

It sure doesn't make sense to me since this would mean you would be (over)extending intermediate stops. I thought the whole concept behind a deco gas (exclude 100% bottle) and the S-curve was to utilize the oxygen window at the deepest part of the deco gas range where it is effective and to push the gradient at the lower stops. All one is doing if they extend the intermediate stops is loading of slow tissues. There seems to be no benefit to this.

Yup. And I heard a rumor that GUE is now not teaching the S-curve on 50% etc. but a more linear portioning (but it's just something i heard here and there)

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Oh, I don't know 'bout that... GI's a bit more emphatic and dynamic than the average - and I think the point is that his style encourages (some might say "demands") acceptance and obedience rather than thoughtful analysis and inquiry. The metaphor that comes to mind is that while many lead their sheep, GI herded his.

Yep ... that's my point. George doesn't answer questions ... he provides answers. And they're not put out there for the purpose of thoughtful discussion, as evidenced by the labels he uses for those who question what he has to say.

If anything, George discourages the thinking diver ... unless you happen to think like George.

Besides, it's not really constructive to quote George in diving threads that aren't dedicated to DIR ... he's just too flammable.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Rick Inman]

Thanks, Guys. I was having some trouble falling asleep last night, and then I read these posts discussing GI and nodded right off.

I am interested in hearing the answer to Dan's question, which woke me right back up this morning.

 

[gcbryan]

I think everyone is a little more direct over the internet than they are in person just become most people are more polite in person. George is another matter however.

I'm wondering however if everyone/anyone who talks about the oxygen window really knows what they are talking about. I know they can repeat the definition but in my reading it is a non-issue. It is a medical fact but it doesn't really have any application to diving that isn't already explained by using more O2 to reduce the nitrogen in the mix.

 

[Dan Gibson]

I think there would be a lot of people who would disagree with this statement.

Explain to us why it's a non factor. Maybe we can use the more appropriate term "partial pressure vacancy" while discussing it's merit or lack of.

I'm all ears.

I'm wondering however if everyone/anyone who talks about the oxygen window really knows what they are talking about. I know they can repeat the definition but in my reading it is a non-issue. It is a medical fact but it doesn't really have any application to diving that isn't already explained by using more O2 to reduce the nitrogen in the mix.

 

[onfloat]

Yes, please explain. I have a beginners understanding of the O2 window and it was my understanding that it gives you a great advantage during deco. Now go slow, I'm one of those Marines that GI is awlays directing commets too.