(6/28/2005) Heart Attacks common in accidents?

[Bibendum]

So, are the recent acccidents involving heart attcks while diving (such as the one at Breakwater about two months ago) just the result of unlucky timing, as opposed to being triggered by diving? I mean, was it likely that the heart attack was going to occur anyway, and it just so happened that it occurred while diving? Or is there something inherent in diving that could potentially trigger a heart attack in a susceptible person (or I guess even in a non-susceptible person)?

 

[Dr. Doug Ebersole]

We are not very good at determining the "triggers" of heart attacks. Statistically they are slightly more likely to occur during (or after) periods of exertion, but the largest number by far occur at rest as people spend the majority of their day "at rest" and not perfoming exercise. Additionally, heart attacks are equally likely to occur from a mild blockage as from a severe one. This means that stress testing wouldn't pick up the risk ahead of time. What should we do? Do whatever you can to lower your risk -- stop smoking, lose weight, exercise, eat right, etc. Oh, and go diving as often as possible!!!!

 

[SteveDiver]

IMO having a yearly physical, EKG and Stress Test is a great idea.

Doc:
Has there been any studies that you know of regarding the dangers of (Scuba diving) pressure and patients with thrombosis or atherosclerosis?

 

[Tom725]

Today in a water park north of Chicago a guy had a heart attack. It was not reported as a water park accident but just a heart attack. Had he been diving it would have been a SCUBA accident.

There seems to have been a large number of reported SCUBA deaths in June. At least half seem to have had a health related component that could have happened anywhere but happened to happen while diving. There are many lessons to be learned including the danger of diving alone, particularly for those of us over 50, and staying in shape. I check this thread daily as well as other source hoping to learn more about causes so I can avoid and help other to avoid.

I have great sympathy and empathy for the families and divers involved. I also believe the dive community is best served by thorough discussion of the incidents including causes.

 

[medic_diver45]

Along similar lines, most firefighter line of duty deaths are due to heart attacks or motor vehicle accidents while responding to calls, but it still gets reported as an LODD.

 

[ReneeC]

"However, the vast majority of patients who suffer heart attacks topside and make it to a hosptial survive them with mortality rates of <10% (even lower with early aggressive therapy). Even patients presenting in cardiogenic shock at the time of their heart attack will survive about 50% of the time. The problem is a lot of people die from the initial event due to rhythm problems and never make it to the hospital. One of these events underwater will result in drowning."

Reinforces why divers should not only take care of themselves BUT should know CPR so they can help their buddy. Survival rate is still pretty good if there is 1) recognition and 2) prompt and appropriate response. So get out there and take your CPR and O2 classes and encourage your dive boats to get an AED on board as well!

 

[cvinzens]

Reinforces why divers should not only take care of themselves BUT should know CPR so they can help their buddy. Survival rate is still pretty good if there is 1) recognition and 2) prompt and appropriate response. So get out there and take your CPR and O2 classes and encourage your dive boats to get an AED on board as well![/i]

As there is certainly nothing wrong with your plea for a good ( diver ) education, it would be promoting a false sense of safety or resonsibility if you link CPR with a heart attack in the water.

While rescue training and CPR may save live at a normal diving accident, I doubt if it does help for an incident involving heart attack diving at depth. I am not a medic, but I imagine the "damage" has been done once a diver shows the symptoms of a heart attack. Considering the time a diver needs to surface himself and an ailing buddy would be somewhere in the minutes. Do you want to apply CPR in the water ( I guess not ). I MHO the healty diver has to get him self first to safety, then CPR might help.

We had a accident in our lake. The buddy tried a rescue, due to the uncontrolled movement ( call it fighting ) of the diver with the attack he had to let go. So he lost the ailling buddy in the whirrled muddy waters. All he could do was save himself. Later it was proven by the corroner that it was a heart attack of his buddy which started disaster.

Never mind every diver should have CPR knowledge and k now how to apply oxygen.

Allways 5 bar in the can.
Conrad

 

[Ayisha]

In regard to the way accidents are reported:

We have to remember that at the time the media first reports an accident, the rare pertinent details that are known is that a diver is missing or found dead, so that is what is reported.

The cause of death often isn't determined until weeks later, and by then, it may not even make the news. Sometimes the public never gets the pertinent info or has to really search for it. Check the threads in this forum for proof of that.

 

[Bibendum]

As a newbie, I have to admit, that the seemingly frequent occurance of heart attacks while diving kinda freaks me out. Especially coming from a family where heart problems may be an issue (we're not sure if my mother passed away due to heart failure or from complications due to diabetes). Either way, even though I have always checked out OK at physicals, it causes me concern. Have any studies been done to show if there is a correlation between diving and increased risk of heart attack? Or is this one of those things where if another cause cannot be found for a diving accident, it defaults to heart attack?

 

[Rick Murchison]

As a newbie, I have to admit, that the seemingly frequent occurance of heart attacks while diving kinda freaks me out. Especially coming from a family where heart problems may be an issue (we're not sure if my mother passed away due to heart failure or from complications due to diabetes). Either way, even though I have always checked out OK at physicals, it causes me concern. Have any studies been done to show if there is a correlation between diving and increased risk of heart attack? Or is this one of those things where if another cause cannot be found for a diving accident, it defaults to heart attack?

It's a news thing.
There are typically some 70-100 "Scuba" deaths in the United States per year, an incredibly low number considering the number of folks diving, and those include the heart attack deaths. I don't believe the rate is any higher in Scuba divers than in the general population of the same age - indeed, I'd be willing to bet it's lower.
Like "shark attacks," deaths that occur when someone's diving are front page stuff, even though both are statistically below the radar horizon. More divers and swimmers die in automobile wrecks on the way to or from the water than die in diving accidents or from shark attack, but those auto deaths only make page 6.
Rick