6/20/09 - Avalon, Catalina - Freediver drowned...

[Jeff Toorish]

I've read in this thread that the victim had been scuba diving, and then did a free dive to retrieve the float anchor. If that is true, it is breaking one of the cardinal rules of free diving: never free dive after diving on scuba.

After having read this thread, I'm not sure that is accurate information (that he was free diving subsequent to scuba) but if it is, it may have been a factor. Obviously we don't know yet, but based on what I've read here it is a possibility.

Jeff

 

[drbill]

The depth profile in the park does go from 0 to about 100 fsw, but Tony was no where near any of the deep portions of the park. Unless the float moved significantly after I left the park, he was in about 20-25 ft of water.

I have not done a lot of free diving since the '82-84 El Nino event. I consider it more dangerous than SCUBA for me (I am not trained in free diving techniques).

The frequent mention of solo diving as a "no no" is not entirely warranted in the park. I probably have some 1,200 solo dives in the park and the highest frequency of incidents (20X higher) was while I was diving with buddies. However, in this particular case, Tony would probably be alive today if he had a buddy with him.

Let's try to focus on Tony's family and friends. I'm glad to hear that some of the discussion on this thread has helped some of them understand the issues. Again, my condolences are with them.

 

[bsee65]

...

The frequent mention of solo diving as a "no no" is not entirely warranted in the park. I probably have some 1,200 solo dives in the park and the highest frequency of incidents (20X higher) was while I was diving with buddies. However, in this particular case, Tony would probably be alive today if he had a buddy with him.

Let's try to focus on Tony's family and friends. I'm glad to hear that some of the discussion on this thread has helped some of them understand the issues. Again, my condolences are with them.

You seem to be a proponent of solo diving, at least for those "qualified" to do so, and we should all read your post with that in mind. Personally, I have to believe that having some sort of incident with a buddy nearby is going to give you an additional chance to survive above the chance of having an incident while you are solo. With the possible exception of an incompetent buddy causing you harm during an incident, I can't see any reason why you wouldn't be just a little safer with one than without. For those who believe in the buddy system, diving solo would be a "no no" just about everywhere.

If anyone might be on the fence about whether or not to dive solo, then the best advice is not to do it. I wouldn't want someone who is less qualified than you to read your post and then decide that the park is a safe place to dive solo without all the other preparation that goes into it. I also believe that, more dangerous than going solo, diving beyond ones ability has to be at the top of the list as a cause of accidents. Someone who dives solo without understanding all the risks and having solid redundant gear is definitely beyond their ability. If you're not absolutely sure you're ready to do it, then don't.

 

[Rick Murchison]

The frequent mention of solo diving as a "no no" is not entirely warranted in the park.

Let me be clear... I am not wagging a finger or in any other way saying "no" to solo diving, swimming, snorkeling or freediving. What I am saying is that there is the additional risk of near-certain death should one suffer some debilitating event while solo in the water. As long as one is willing to accept that additional risk, then go right ahead and do water things by yourself. One who denies that solo water activities carry this additional risk is living in a fantasy world.
From a mishap prevention perspective, one of the easiest ways - I'm convinced the easiest way - to increase your chances of surviving a debilitating event in the water is to have a competent buddy.
Rick

 

[Anti-Hero]

YOU can maybe. I don't know, I haven't free dived since I started Scuba, didn't have a depth gauge before, but I doubt I ever got half that deep and I was always better than any of the other tourists snorkeling. You can get down faster if you're weighted, but getting back up is one of my priorities too. And I don't guess I am going to test my limits because any time I get close to clear water, I scuba - which I won't mix with free diving.

Thanks

Whoa there buddy - I think you misunderstood me. The DEPTH PROFILE of the dive park is such, that with a few fin kicks [on the surface] you can be OVER 100 ft. of water. I was in no way saying I could freedive to 100 fsw in a few fin kicks.

 

[DandyDon]

The frequent mention of solo diving as a "no no" is not entirely warranted in the park. I probably have some 1,200 solo dives in the park and the highest frequency of incidents (20X higher) was while I was diving with buddies. However, in this particular case, Tony would probably be alive today if he had a buddy with him.

Yes, you're a certainly more experienced diver than the vast majority of Rec divers, and I remember how well you handled your 70 CESA without pony - much better than my 50 footer. I'm sure you're much better than the vast majority of Rec divers at preventing problems and self rescue alike. Your personal example doesn't apply to most of us, I don't think.

But didn't someone say Tony has 2,000 dives? Was he a pro? I've seen my Tech Inst pull some stunts where he needed a buddy, once to stop him but he survived.

Whoa there buddy - I think you misunderstood me. The DEPTH PROFILE of the dive park is such, that with a few fin kicks [on the surface] you can be OVER 100 ft. of water. I was in no way saying I could freedive to 100 fsw in a few fin kicks.

Ah ha, OKAY! Gotcha - thanks!

 

[Ken Kurtis]

The DEPTH PROFILE of the dive park is such, that with a few fin kicks [on the surface] you can be OVER 100 ft. of water.

One of the things I feel strongly abut when we're talking about accidents and what we can learn from them is that we state things correctly. Not to pick on him, but while the gist of Anti-Hero's statement is correct (it's easy to get deep in the park), the specifics are not.

And lest anyone be getting a wrong mental picture of what happened with this accident, especially those who might not be familiar with the Park, I thought I'd take a moment to give you some of the distances I personally measured for an investigation of a fatality that occurred at the Park in 2006.

The Avalon UW Park is pretty much a rectangle (technically, I think it's more a parallelogram but you get the idea). There are stairs on the shore side pretty much in the middle of that side. There are four buoys along the back end boundary of the Park, which is marked by a floating line and these big buoys. Depth at that point (depending on the tide) is roughly 70 feet.

If you are standing at the base of the steps, facing the ocean, here are the distances I measured (with a laser rangefinder):

Steps to middle back buoy - 240 feet
Steps to the left corner buoy (towards the Valiant) - 360 feet
Steps to the right corner buoy (over the Sujack - about 90 feet deep) - 588 feet
Steps to fixed descent buoys (in 20' of water) - 78 feet

So while it's true that you can get some depth just outside the boundaries of the Park, it's not true that one or two kicks can inadvertently put you in deep water. You've got to work at it a bit.

In this particular case, my understanding is that he was found in about 20-25 feet of water. Based on where most buoys are anchored, based on some eyewitness statements, my guess is that it would mean he was roughly 75-100 feet from the base of the steps.

- Ken

 

[drbill]

As many of you know, I never advocate that another diver try solo diving. I don't know another diver's experience or response to emergencies. I have solo dived for nearly 50 years, but my experience is not relevant to this particular case as I was not the unfortunate diver.

My comment re: solo diving was meant only to suggest that IF one chooses to dive solo, the dive park is a pretty "safe" place to do so since it is well populated with other divers and has emergency personnel readily available. Obviously one needs to consider the personal risk involved in choosing to dive solo.

Thanks Ken for the clarification re: a few fin kicks to deep water. Actually I'm not sure there is any place that is over 100 ft deep AND still in the park. The boundary at the north end is in about 55 ft, in the vicinity of our "wreck alley" about 70 ft and at the south end in the 95 ft range (I should check by diving down the buoy anchor chain).

I know of no fin that could propel me into 100 ft depths with just a few fin kicks!

Tony was indeed in relatively shallow water fairly close to shore unless they moved the inflatable man further out after I left the park.

 

[Teamcasa]

I still think the real issue here is not solo diving (in scuba diving sense) or how deep the dive park is.

The real issue is; did the free dive to a shallow depth (20-25 FSW) shortly after scuba diving, play a role in his untimely death or was something else the cause.

One more thought:
If he had asked another diver who also was scuba diving that day, to join him in the free dive, who there have been two divers in trouble?

 

[Thalassamania]

I have never heard of bubble-pumping resulting in unconsciousness or death, the expected symptomology is a patch of anesthesia on the skin. Could happen though.