50% of the time. Why Me?

[Pimbura]

Both divers had AOW (one was working on his DM) and over 10 years diving each and over 300 dives each.
I do not pretend to understand their thought processes.

I plan on 15 minutes of deco, every time I plan on venturing beyond 100 feet. I seldom stay long enough to get into deco, but I plan for it anyway. I manage my gas supply to leave the water with at least 1/3 of my main remaining, even after deco.
I do not count my pony in the numbers above. It is a bail out bottle to be used in the gravest extreme.

Both the situations I mentioned above were out of character for the divers. Actually, I had never before seen this type of behavior from either of them.

I am a firm believer in redundant systems. I've seen too much go wrong with 'fool proof' equipment. I do not recommend that anyone dive as I dive, but then again, I pump my own air and service my own equipment (including regulators). I do not recommend either of these activities to anyone.
I own my own compressor and pump my own air, because I know the guy that maintains that compressor and he takes real good care of his stuff.
I service my own regulators, because I know what I am doing and if something is wrong, I know where to find the idiot that did the work.

I do not know what those guys were thinking or why they made the decisions they made. I will not speculate. The situations were as I described them, to the best of my recollection.

No, I haven't been back in the water with either of these gentlemen and I never will be again.

 

[Rick Inman]

I plan on 15 minutes of deco, every time I plan on venturing beyond 100 feet.

Just wondering, were you planning 15 mins. of deco for the guy with the AL80?

I manage my gas supply to leave the water with at least 1/3 of my main remaining, even after deco.

Were you planning on the guy with the AL80 doing a 100+' dive, 15mins of deco and having 1/3 of their bottle left? I am asking because it seems to me like gas management should take into account all the divers.

 

[DandyDon]

Just wondering, were you planning 15 mins. of deco for the guy with the AL80?

Were you planning on the guy with the AL80 doing a 100+' dive, 15mins of deco and having 1/3 of their bottle left? I am asking because it seems to me like gas management should take into account all the divers.

We cannot control the actions of others, and can only plan with a buddy to an extent. Allowing for learning that you're at depth with one who turned out to be an idiot is wise.

 

[Pimbura]

When diving with experienced divers, I do not plan their gas management for them. I don't make the decision as to what undergarment they should wear in their drysuit either.

I am responsible to my buddies, at least to the extent that a portion of my gear configuration is to address other people's shortcomings and / or mistakes.

Currently, I am diving with a newly trained diver. We make dives this side of 60 feet, and he can suck a HP 120 dry faster than a Hoover Vacuum cleaner. I watch his air like a hawk. I watch his bouancy, I monitor his gear configuration. I check the zipper on his drysuit, etc.
I do not spend 75% of my dive watching an experienced diver. I do spend 75%+ of my dive watching a new person.

I told of two dives where something went wrong with seasoned divers. Evidently, I should have kept my mouth shut.

Pretend it never happened. Pretend I only dive in swimming pools and only with instructors.

 

[Rick Inman]

Pretend it never happened. Pretend I only dive in swimming pools and only with instructors.

Whoa! No offense intended. Just asking questions so I (we) can learn from your post. You said:

Two out of the last four dives I have been on, I brought my dive buddy up on my octopus...
The first of those two dives:
Old dive buddy shows up with short fills on both his main tank and his pony. Elects to make the dive anyway (over 100 feet deep at night). Dive buddy shows me his computer at 110 fsw and the tank pressure is flashing ZERO.
We are in a slight deco situation.
I bring him up, through deco on my octopus
Diver number one blamed his problem on too small a tank.

So I was wondering, is it right to know the CF and PSI of your buddy before the dive, discuss it and plan accordingly? Nothing personal, Pimbura. just looking for a way to use your post as a sounding board to learn from.

 

[Phish-phood]

I am starting to be really really glad that I have two very reliable buddies and don't need to worry about having to dive with someone I don't know.

On a recent dive one of my regular dive buddies and I had another guy join up with us. He was a newly certified AOW with about twenty dives under his belt and knew what he was about. We discussed the dive plan which was to drop to about 24 metres, navigate underwater to a platform around 17/18 metres and surface from there or play around there depending on our air. During the discussion this guy said he would like to surface to the safety stop on 70bar to which my buddy and I agreed and said first to 70bar, signal and we'll go up. Dive went well, had fun my buddy and I are on about 90bar and starting to get a bit cold so we signal to up, all three of us ascend and do a safety stop for 4 mins and surface. Once out of the water this guy turns to us and says laughing, gosh I didn't think I'd have enough air for that, I have only got about 20bar left, I was so glad you guys called it when you did!

As you can imagine my buddy and I were absolutely raging with him - after all he was the one who specified 70bar! It was completely irresponsible of him to knowingly put himself and us in that position, what would have happened if my buddy and I had decided to go to 70bar assuming this guy was okay for air because he was checking it and knew the plan.

 

[Pugsly55]

<<That's something you had control of before the dive ever started.>>

Excellent point.

<<Personally, if I ask someone their gas pressure and they flash me the OK sign I ask again ... and if I don't get the response I'm looking for the second time, I give them the turnaround signal. That's simple self-preservation.>>

Just curious, but unless the buddy in much more inexperienced than you, why do you have to ask them for tank pressure readings during the dive? I mean, gas management should be a divers primary concern. Most any problems can be managed as long as you have enough gas to breath. Anway, unless I am on a dive led by a DM or on a training dive (ie where someone may feel responsible for me), I find people wanting to look at my air gauge a bit intrusive. Inquiries are fine, but an "OK" sign should be sufficient to set your mind at ease if you know your buddy at all. If I were that worried about a person's ability to manage their own gas, then they have poor self-preservation skills, and I would not dive with them.

 

[annie]

One of my most recent dives was with a new buddy who was brand new OW certified. First dive without her instructor there. And I must say, despite feeling sea sick, and the visibility being about 0.5m, she was *great*. She knew what buddying was about, had been well trained, and just enjoyed being underwater although it wasn't much of a dive.
I have dived with other more experienced divers who I wouldn't buddy with again, mostly because of their unsafe attitude.
I'd take the diver with the grand total of 6 dives over the guy with 60 dives who doesn't understand buddying, any day.

Sometimes it seems like divers either 'get' the buddy concept or not, irrespective of experience.

 

[Boogie711]

Just curious, but unless the buddy in much more inexperienced than you, why do you have to ask them for tank pressure readings during the dive? I mean, gas management should be a divers primary concern. Most any problems can be managed as long as you have enough gas to breath. Anway, unless I am on a dive led by a DM or on a training dive (ie where someone may feel responsible for me), I find people wanting to look at my air gauge a bit intrusive. Inquiries are fine, but an "OK" sign should be sufficient to set your mind at ease if you know your buddy at all. If I were that worried about a person's ability to manage their own gas, then they have poor self-preservation skills, and I would not dive with them.

Wow - I make a habit of asking and knowing my buddy's air pressure during the dive. If you find it intrusive, don't dive with me.

Why do I care? Because that's MY air!!! If I'm at 100 feet and you're at 300 psi, you're not just putting yourself at risk, you're putting ME at risk. I don't just want a vague definition of what you may think is "OK." We all know where that leads.

It's not about self-preservation skills. It's about team preservation.

 

[mjh]

Pimbura, don’t take any of this personally the nature of the board is to dissect what went on. It sounds like you have a great deal of experience but many to this board are new divers and its great we all can learn from your situation. Keep posting, keep involved.