35ish dives in, started to panic, had to abort - still causes some concern

[Ministryofgiraffes]

100% on getting your own regs. Don’t skimp on them. Get some good ones, it’s helps immeasurably.

 

[CapnBloodbeard]

And finally the equipment.

Appreciate your time in all 3 posts there. The training was certainly interesting!

Just to clarify on this point - are you raising the point that the regs which breathe really easy can have the downside in allowing me to chew through a LOT of air really quickly - but on the flip side, I don't have the sense of something potentially restricting my breathing (which, perhaps, may allow me to get my breathing back under control faster...??)


In this post-covid world my wife and I have definitely decided to buy regs - and I'm looking at reasonable ones, not cheapies. I'll have to read up a little more on dyspnea as well. I remember times being puffed out (ie playing soccer) when I felt that struggle to draw the breath I needed - naturally, not good if I'm feeling that under water, and I suspect a reg with some breathing resistance


Interesting comments on the tank too – I know I’m often overthinking my oxygen consumption too, so a larger tank may allow me to not worry about that too much

The only thing I would change is the safety stop you conducted before hitting the surface.


-Z

Thanks for raising that as a concern. I was aware that the s/s was something I could have skipped, but as we approached that point I could feel myself starting to calm down a bit so was happy to do it. Arguably if I was calm enough to do a s/s then I probably could have continued the dive....but I played it on the safe side.


Thanks for the supporting comments - I do feel like the experience can only be beneficial, although it does raise some concerns about doing AOW and being more than 1 breath away from the surface, if you know what I mean. Ultimately being in the water I think is the best way to get past something like this (and I did another 8 or so dives on that trip after with no problem), and I'll just have to remember that I didn't panic - but I felt the early signs of it and chose to err on the side of caution

 

[CapnBloodbeard]

I had a couple of hard-to-breathe-through regulators before I bought my own. Definitely weighed down on every moment of the dive - if you cannot breathe right, it's all fubar, so, think about getting your own. In terms of fitness (and often consequently, air consumption) I think it's important to know your limits and not overexert; don't try to swim faster than you're comfortably able, etc. Impressive awareness however in your story; a valuable learning experience.

yeah, and I figure some people are probably going to be more sensitive to the feeling of restricted breathing than others. I'm going to get an asthma assessment too - not sure if I might have some undiagnosed asthma. thanks for your supporting comments.

I think we read the original post differently. This piece quoted from it indicated to me that he had not calmed down until he was conducting the safety stop, and regardless of the reason why he was in the mental/physical state he was in, there was no reason obligating him to make that stop:

-Z

You're both making valid points and I don't even think you're arguing against each other Both are useful comments in this conversation for the benefit of other readers.

It's a bit hazy now, I think at the time of the safety stop I still wasn't 100% but I was improving, rather than increasing in distress - though as I mentioned elsewhere in this post, I certainly was prepared to ditch the s/s if I felt my distress increasing again.

It is an important point that there are times when the safest thing is to not do the safety stop

 

[CapnBloodbeard]

One trick I used to use if I felt anxious (particularly if there was no really obvious cause) was to distract myself either by looking at the reef, pretty fishes, taking photographs or playing some light hearted music in my head. It helps distract if the anxiety is primarily psychological.

Other than that everything mentioned by the other posters is very worth taking into account. And a double plus one for getting your own regs.

Rental gear is sometimes a necessary evil but don’t spare the regs and treat yourself to a nice set.

That's good advice and I have done that when feeling a bit anxious before. I think you could consider that a practical application of mindfulness - but it's a good tip, especially for those who may be at risk of distress if they consider all the water they're under/around, that sort of thing. Thanks for the support

 

[Tippytoes12]

You did really well in the circumstances and diving in Komodo can be challenging.

You have had great advice above, agree with it all. Getting fitter and loosing weight if that’s an issue, will really improve your air consumption, help you keep up with the group and therefore prevent you from getting anxious about the same thing happening again.

At 35 dives you are still a novice as you say, but if you love diving consider starting to buy your own equipment if you can. My air consumption improved with each purchase. A BCD in good condition where you know the air inlets and outlets with integrated weights, your own wetsuit without holes, a regulator that hasn’t been in other mouths and fins that fit all make you more confident and more relaxed in the water. The more relaxed you are the more notice you will take of the surroundings and the less air you will need.

 

[Angelo Farina]

Just to clarify on this point - are you raising the point that the regs which breathe really easy can have the downside in allowing me to chew through a LOT of air really quickly - but on the flip side, I don't have the sense of something potentially restricting my breathing (which, perhaps, may allow me to get my breathing back under control faster...??)

Under normal conditions YOU are controlling your breathing, so a good reg cannot increase you air consumption; it can actually reduce it. How much you breath is technically related to how much CO2 you are producing, which is perfectly proportional to the effort you are exerting. Having less effort required for breathing reduces the CO2 production, hence the need for breathing. A good reg, in normal circumstances, can REDUCE SAC by, say, 10%.
Only under the anomalous conditions triggering dyspnea the good reg will allow you to breath more air. By definition, during a dyspnea attack it is not YOU limiting your breathing, it is the breathing apparatus. A good reg is not limiting, so the SAC will explode. However, at that point it is time to surface in any case, as the dyspnea situation is the outcome of other problems which should had suggested to call the dive earlier: too strong current, too cold, low visibility, lost buddy, etc...
And the fact that the reg is not limiting your sudden demand for air flow means that it will be easier to overcome the dyspnea vicious circle, and get control of your breathing again. As said, with a good reg you breath more easily underwater than at surface, as you are getting some sort of "assisted breathing". This means that a CESA would be counter-productive, as at surface you will be in worst dsypnea conditions than underwater.
When you have a good reg, and you feel that you are loosing control of your breathing, this means that too much CO2 is accumulating: you should stop any muscular effort (for example kicking) and stay steady and relaxed until you get control of breathing again. Swimming to the surface as quickly as possible would require a strong muscular effort, so that cannot be the solution!
Many others did already tell this to you: buy a nice, good reg set. I would recommend a balanced first stage (either diaphragm or piston - I am a piston guy) possibly with DIN mount (much safer), and two identical second stages (I did always find stupid to have an "octo" which is much worst than the primary - both must be equally good). For the second stage I suggest again balanced, with effort knob and a switch for limiting the Venturi effect.
On the primary you will keep the effort knob all out and the Venturi vane set to "dive", on the secondary you can screw in the knob by one turn and keep the Venturi vane to "pre dive", for avoiding that it goes too easily in free flowing. In the case you need to use the secondary, you will open the knob and bring the vane to "dive", ensuring the very same performances as the primary.
Regarding the tank: I did never understand the success of the so-called "AL80" tanks, which are slightly less than 12 liters. I never used them, I always employed tanks of 15 liters minimum (and with double valve, so I can use two completely separate and identical regs, with two first stages).
Just ask to the diving center to get a larger tank, and you will never be the one who finishes air before the others.
I did find that a larger tank also reduces your SAC, as you are more relaxed knowing that you have an ample air reservoir...
And finally the fins: I did always find that dyspnea occurred to my students who were not able to use their fins properly (or which had fins unsuited for their kicking capabilities). There must be a perfect match between your fins and your legs. The fins which are good for me (Rondine Gara of medium length and medium stiffness) are not necessarily good for others. For example, they are too soft for my wife, she want stiffer fins. You must find the fins good for you, and you must learn how the get the maximum efficiency from them employing a proper kicking style.
Most diving instructors give very little importance to fins and kicking, instead they are fundamental for keeping your effort low, avoiding to produce too much CO2 and preventing dyspnea.

 

[InTheDrink]

Angelo makes good points above.

Having your own rig definitely increase comfort/rescues anxiety particularly in challenging dives.

Another point work making is weighting. If I’m wearing a full 3mm suit with alloy backplate and steel 3L point in don’t need to use any weights. I think I have heavy bones tho. But it makes diving so much easier. The less weight I can wear (safely) the better. Your find you SAC improves a lot the more weight you drop.

Also - whilst I’m not a member any more, a GUE fundies course will pay you in good stead. They really just focus on nailing the basics (buoyancy, fin kicks, trim, primary donate, SMB deployment etc) but it really helps to get these down pat.

Then if you have a club near you and they do a pool session a great way to increase relaxation under water and increase your confidence. If you practise taking your kit on and off underwater, or ditch you rig and free dive down to get it and the don your kit and try to make up complicated scenarios you’ll find that when it comes to real diving you’re so much more comfortable because you know that you can deal with most situations with ease. All these things really help with your breathing, comfort and confidence.

I don’t think I’ve every felt anxious underwater since doing these things.

 

[Bob DBF]

Regarding the tank: I did never understand the success of the so-called "AL80" tanks...

It was a matter of right place right time. The large tank at the time was the old steel 72, Compressors output was not as dry as it is now, and salt water intrusion was an issue. The Al tanks held more air, did not rust, and were cheaper which was perfect for rental tanks and an individual looking for a bigger tank. They have held on as rental tanks in NA and the Caribbean because of price, ability to withstand abuse, and inertia.

 

[Telvar]

About 2 years ago I had some issues with diving, probably because of work stress/lack of sleep/being a perfectionist/whatever. When diving, I always had a moment at about 2/3 of the dive where I would develop issues with buouyancy, causing stress, increase heart-rate and breathing and more stress, feeling of getting too little air, etc.. A few times this has caused a sleight panic attack (and that for a very level-headed bloke). It wasn't necessary to call the dive as I was still -sort of- in control, but it did cause 2 less- than controlled ascends (from limited depth). Also at that time I found that my general air consumption rate was pretty bad. All this greatly diminished my fun of diving and caused a comparable uncertainty as the OP as to possible dangers of diving deeper (>10m). btw, I was not underweighted.

My solution: reading up on and practicing breathing techniques above water, spending a few dives just getting comfortable again underwater and nothing else (to get that wonderful 'zen' feeling again) and doing that during relatively shallow dives (<10m) while doing that. I also got myself an aqualung legend (although many other brands will do the same) and that helped as well. Now I have a regulator that provides air without any effort.

This greatly decreased my stress level and helped my diving and air consumption massively. I also increased my diving frequency just to get more comfortable in the water.

Maybe this will help you in any way.

 

[chillyinCanada]

Appreciate your time in all 3 posts there. The training was certainly interesting!

Just to clarify on this point - are you raising the point that the regs which breathe really easy can have the downside in allowing me to chew through a LOT of air really quickly - but on the flip side, I don't have the sense of something potentially restricting my breathing (which, perhaps, may allow me to get my breathing back under control faster...??)


In this post-covid world my wife and I have definitely decided to buy regs - and I'm looking at reasonable ones, not cheapies. I'll have to read up a little more on dyspnea as well. I remember times being puffed out (ie playing soccer) when I felt that struggle to draw the breath I needed - naturally, not good if I'm feeling that under water, and I suspect a reg with some breathing resistance


Interesting comments on the tank too – I know I’m often overthinking my oxygen consumption too, so a larger tank may allow me to not worry about that too much





Thanks for raising that as a concern. I was aware that the s/s was something I could have skipped, but as we approached that point I could feel myself starting to calm down a bit so was happy to do it. Arguably if I was calm enough to do a s/s then I probably could have continued the dive....but I played it on the safe side.


Thanks for the supporting comments - I do feel like the experience can only be beneficial, although it does raise some concerns about doing AOW and being more than 1 breath away from the surface, if you know what I mean. Ultimately being in the water I think is the best way to get past something like this (and I did another 8 or so dives on that trip after with no problem), and I'll just have to remember that I didn't panic - but I felt the early signs of it and chose to err on the side of caution

Any chance you have a touch of exercise induced asthma? I only mention this because you brought up the soccer and recognizing a similar sensation.

(Edit: Doh! I should have read further into the thread before posting)