3000psi valve in a 3442 tank?

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He did not understand 232 bar indicated on the valve decal.

Well interesting enough to all this I just checked and my valves have (stamped into the chrome part) 250 BAR.

---------- Post Merged at 01:32 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 01:31 PM ----------

What is the number on the burst disc? I couldn't read it.

It says 3000 on the top section. The B is in the middle. And 5000 on the bottom

---------- Post Merged at 01:53 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 01:31 PM ----------

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So yeah, it's the right burst disc for the 3000 psi sticker. It's just not what you thought you were buying.
 
Interestingly I had a similar problem on the Fling, the genius tank filler thought that the '3000' meant that the highest pressure the valve was rated for was 3000 PSI. Try arguing with someone like that sometimes....next time on that boat I just peeled off the sticker and everything was fine.

Here's what I suspect. Burst discs are usually set around the test pressure, I think. For AL and 3AA tanks that is 5/3 of rated pressure, or 5000 PSI for 3000 PSI tanks. So, unless I'm mistaken, a standard burst disc for an AL80 would be 5000 PSI. For the special permit tanks, test pressure is 1.5 times fill pressure, or 5163 PSI. So a 5000 PSI burst disc is pretty close. But they probably don't have stickers that say "3442, B 5163" so they just use the sticker they have that indicates a 5000 PSI burst disc.

So, you probably have the right burst disc for that tank, just lose the sticker and all should be okay.
 
the burst disk has to hold 90% of test presure. in this case 5/3 of 3000 is 5000 and the disk will have to hold 4500. i would suspect tht 4600 is the blow point. hydro shops do not have to get the valves with the tanks. many shops remove the valves for rebuild and send teh unvalved tank to the hydro shop.
 
We can argue about the semantics of the service pressure sticker on the valve, but the reality is that it is a workable burst disc for the tank. There are three factors that are working together here to allow that to happen.

1) Technically the burst disc has to it blow between 90% and 100% of the test pressure so it can go anywhere between 4,500 psi and 5,000 psi for a 3,000 psi service 3AL aluminum tank where the test pressure is 5/3rds the service pressure (5000 psi).

2) Test pressures for 3AL and 3AA tanks are 5/3rds the service pressure. But for special permit tanks, the standard is to use a test pressure that is 3/2 the service pressure.

3) The people that make burst discs are pretty good at engineering them to go at fairly exact pressures.

So for a 3AL aluminum tank (the normal destination for a 3,000 psi service tank), the test pressure is 5,000 psi, thus the 3000/5000 marking on the disc assembly. And as noted above, that particular disc will blow very close to 5,000 psi - in the 4,800-5,000 psi range when new.

With the X7-100 tank the service pressure is 3,442 psi, however the test pressure is 3/2 the service pressure, or 5,163 psi. And, the burst disc must fail between 4,647 psi and 5,163 psi. Due to the difference in engineering standards and required test pressures, there is just not much difference in the burst disc requirements.

Also consider the not all that common 3,180 psi 3AA steel tank which holds 3,498 psi at the plus rated pressure and has a 5/3 rds derived test pressure of 5,300 psi. Here the burst disc here has to go between 4,770 psi and 5,300 psi - a little higher, but not much.

Finally, consider the older 3,500 psi genesis tanks that also had a 3/2 test pressure - in that case 5,250 psi, requiring a burst disc that fails between 4,725 psi and 5,250 psi. This assembly is commonly marked 3500/5250 and nobody blinks if you use one in a 3,442 psi tank, although technically if it does not blow until 5,250 psi it's 137 psi too much to be technically "legal" in a 3,442 psi tank.

So the burst disc pressures for various tanks:

3AL 3000 psi tank =.......between 4,500 psi and 5,000 psi
X7-100 3442 psi tank = ..between 4,647 psi and 5,163 psi
3AA 3,180 psi tank = .....between 4,770 psi and 5,300 psi
Genesis 3,500 psi tank = between 4,725 psi and 5,250 psi

Based on this, all you need to be "legal" with all 4 tank types is a burst disc that ruptures between 4,770 psi and 5,000 psi.

The 3000/5000 disc assembly is going to do that, at least within the limits of practical real world experience and pressure gauges.

The only problem in the real world is that the sticker on the valve indicates a 3,000 psi service pressure and the above information is way more than the average tank monkey has, so they'll default to the sticker rather than any rational argument about regulatory requirements and test pressures based on differing engineering standard-

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What really matters in a fire is that they blow before the test pressure is reached, so from a safety perspective I can live with a disc that goes at 5,000 psi rather than at 5,163 psi. Burst discs are subject to fatigue and corrosion so over time the burst pressure drops, and that is where the 90% limit is nice, as it ensures a large margin over the test pressure. But again the 3000/5000 assembly in a 3,442 psi tank still gives you a margin of at least 1,058 psi even with the 163 psi lower theoretical burst limit of *only* 4,500 psi. You'd need a hell of an over fill for that to become a problem. I replace my burst discs every 5 years when the tank is hydro tested, when I also rebuild the valve. If for some reason I rebuild the valve in the interim, then I also replace the disc as the valve has pretty much by virtue of needing rebuilt seen extensive use or abnormally harsh conditions.

If it were my tank, I'd slap a 3442 psi sticker on it and call it good. In fact, all 4 of my 3442 psi X7-100s have 3000/5000 disc assemblies in them now - with the original "3442" stickers on the valves.

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The irony here is that where it starts getting shaky using a 3000/5000 burst disc is with the 3,300 psi 3AL tanks like the AL 100 and neutral 80 where the burst disc pressure must be between 4,950 and 5,500 psi. That only leaves a 50 psi window and you probably won't get that kind of precision in a 3000/5000 psi burst disc - but those are tanks that the tank monkey WON'T question if they have a 3,000 psi service sticker on the valve, they'll just fill them - probably to 3,000 psi as they probably won't even recognize them as 3,300 psi service pressure tanks, because they are aluminum.
 
Do yours say 3000psi or 3442? Also what does yours have stamped on the burst disc?

Mine say 230 bar on the back and have a 3442 psi sticker on front. Here are pics of one of them. I really like the valves, the handles are soft enough rubber that they aren't brittle, and they are bigger than the average knob so they are comfortable. I've had the vales for a few years and they still turn easy. I really think you should go back to the lds and get the correct valves, not because the ones you have won't work but because the XS scuba valves are some heavy duty valves...which may be why someone swapped them.

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If that's a 5250 PSI burst valve, it is higher than the test pressure; not by much. Maybe on some far away planet it makes a difference, but here on earth I'm sure either the 5000 PSI disc or the 5250 will do the job, meaning give way before the tank turns into a bomb.

As long as the valve is a convertible DIN/yoke valve, I am also sure that there is no pressure 'rating' differences in the valves themselves; they're simply the same valve with different burst discs and different stickers. Probably the best thing for XS scuba to do would be to forget about the sticker anyway as it obviously confuses the already confused tanks fillers.

So, the OP maybe could go back and get the 'correct' valve, but it's likely to be simply the same valve with a different sticker and a slightly higher rated burst disc. Personally I'd rather have a 5000 PSI burst disc than a 5250 in my SP 3442 tank that I store in my house, but I wouldn't lose any sleep over it one way or the other.
 
It is a 5250 in mine, which actually is the test pressure. It is the same burst disc that came with it. I wouldn't switch because of the pressure rating, but I would switch because the XS scuba valves are really nice valves. I like them better than any other valve I have used.

Here's link to the special permit that these tanks are tested under.

http://www.xsscuba.com/downloads/SP14157.pdf
 

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