30 or 40 lb. lift on Halcyon Eclipse?

[DiegoDiver]

I'm going to spare you the details, but I have seen the light. I'm relatively new into diving...6 months...20 dives... so I don't have to replace absolutely everything, but I do regret buying a back inflate BC. OW and Nitrox certified through PADI...Currently doing Advanced and will finish off doing Rescue....Then, I am planning on taking DIR-F here in San Diego.

By the way...anyone want to buy my Seaquest Balance? HA

I'm in the middle of reading Doing it Right, and Dress for Success right now. Great Books.

I haven't finished reading the books, so I might be able to answer my own question, but I'm not patient enough.

I've read a lot of the DIR posts and as much DIR material as I can get my hands on.

From what I've read and heard, I've decided to go with the Halcyon Eclipse, SS Backplate and 6lb weighted STA. Definitely open to other opinions/options though...the more, the better.

Here's my question. I'm in Cold Water in San Diego. I don't have a drysuit yet...but that's another purchase I'm going to make soon....I need to win the lottery. If I am 5'11, 190 lbs., diving Steel tanks and will eventually have a dry suit and hopefully be DIR configured (completely)....should I go with the 30 lb. or 40lb. wing? I currently use around 24 lbs. with an AL80, my BC, and 7 mm wetsuit- A little less with a steel tank, about 20-22.

I read somewhere that the DIR philosophy says that a 30lb wing should be enough for singles or you otherwise have an unbalanced rig....OK..then why make a 40lb wing? There have to be situations and diving environments that would necessitate a 40lb wing. Any thoughts/opinions are greatly welcomed. Thanks a lot in advance.

 

[lamont]

This isn't a strictly DIR answer, but with 20 dives, you don't have a lot of experience. I was in a similar position to you and went with a 40# Eclipse wing. The extra 10# of lift can help if you do stupid weighting things as you're learning, which I did. Hopping in with an old and jacked up LP104 with the same weightbelt on as I used with Al80s was a good example of one of my stupid newbie tricks. The streamlining issues between the 30# and 40# wings are pretty minimal, so I'd go with the 40# wing if I had to do it all over again. YMMV.

 

[cool_hardware52]

I'm going to spare you the details, but I have seen the light. I'm relatively new into diving...6 months...20 dives... so I don't have to replace absolutely everything, but I do regret buying a back inflate BC. OW and Nitrox certified through PADI...Currently doing Advanced and will finish off doing Rescue....Then, I am planning on taking DIR-F here in San Diego.

By the way...anyone want to buy my Seaquest Balance? HA

I'm in the middle of reading Doing it Right, and Dress for Success right now. Great Books.

I haven't finished reading the books, so I might be able to answer my own question, but I'm not patient enough.

I've read a lot of the DIR posts and as much DIR material as I can get my hands on.

From what I've read and heard, I've decided to go with the Halcyon Eclipse, SS Backplate and 6lb weighted STA. Definitely open to other opinions/options though...the more, the better.

Here's my question. I'm in Cold Water in San Diego. I don't have a drysuit yet...but that's another purchase I'm going to make soon....I need to win the lottery. If I am 5'11, 190 lbs., diving Steel tanks and will eventually have a dry suit and hopefully be DIR configured (completely)....should I go with the 30 lb. or 40lb. wing? I currently use around 24 lbs. with an AL80, my BC, and 7 mm wetsuit- A little less with a steel tank, about 20-22.

I read somewhere that the DIR philosophy says that a 30lb wing should be enough for singles or you otherwise have an unbalanced rig....OK..then why make a 40lb wing? There have to be situations and diving environments that would necessitate a 40lb wing. Any thoughts/opinions are greatly welcomed. Thanks a lot in advance.

DiegoDiver,

Wing lift is a function of exposure suit. A Buoyancy Compensator is compensating primarily for the loss or potential loss of buoyancy of your exposure suit.

A BC must be able to do two things: Float your rig without you in it, and compensate for your suit.

Put on your DS with undergarment. Get in the pool with no other gear, vent to minimum air in the suit. Add lead 'till your neutral. The amount of lead it take to get you neutral in your suit represents the lift you might loose in a total flood.

This exercise is only to determine required lift.

You will need to adjust your weighting after you get your rig.

Why are there single wings of greater than 30 lbs lift? People using thick wetsuits or thick undergarments, may need more lift because their suits can (potentially) loose more lift. This is most often seen in cold water environments.


Regards,


Tobin

 

[Derek S]

I agree with Lamont. I have a 45lb Pioneer wing, and while it is probably more than I need, the excess drag is negligble compared with a 30lb wing, and it has allowed me to do some of my stupid noobie tricks as well (28lbs on my first drysuit dive....YOWZA!!!).

And for the record, your "cold water in San Diego" comment is relative. There are those of us who think your dive conditions there are damn near tropical compared to what we do.


*Edit - welcome to the DIR forums by the way.

 

[KOMPRESSOR]

And for the record, your "cold water in San Diego" comment is relative. There are those of us who think your dive conditions there are damn near tropical compared to what we do.

-You could say that loud over again, buddy!

And for the 30/40 "dilemma" I'd say the same as those above, it doesn't matter at all regarding drag. The only situation you'd be left with a problem with the 30 is if you unbuckle your rig in the water with a full steel tank. With only a 30 wing I'm pretty darn sure your rig will sink like a horseshoe...

 

[lamont]

-You could say that loud over again, buddy!

And for the 30/40 "dilemma" I'd say the same as those above, it doesn't matter at all regarding drag. The only situation you'd be left with a problem with the 30 is if you unbuckle your rig in the water with a full steel tank. With only a 30 wing I'm pretty darn sure your rig will sink like a horseshoe...

Properly weighted you should only have around 10# on a weightbelt, 10# from full 130s and 5# from a backplate. If you're using a weightbelt, then your rig should float with a 30# wing. If you're using the halcyon ACB or weighted STA or other attatched weighting, then 30# is going to be cutting it fairly close.

30# should work, it just doesn't allow for much wiggle room. An extra 10# won't kill you -- even in the event that you have a runaway inflator, you can still swim down a 40# eclipse until you get it under control.

 

[KOMPRESSOR]

Properly weighted you should only have around 10# on a weightbelt, 10# from full 130s and 5# from a backplate. If you're using a weightbelt, then your rig should float with a 30# wing. If you're using the halcyon ACB or weighted STA or other attatched weighting, then 30# is going to be cutting it fairly close.

30# should work, it just doesn't allow for much wiggle room. An extra 10# won't kill you -- even in the event that you have a runaway inflator, you can still swim down a 40# eclipse until you get it under control.

IF he's using a weightbelt... And he should of course, if he's starting up diving wet in this rig. But a FULL steel tank + SS plate + 6 lbs weighted STA on a 30#, unbuckled in the surface? Nah... It'd be going down I'd say! :14:

But for the record, if I'd gotten a trilam ds I'd go for the 30# myself. But I would know would I'm going to, since I've had a 40# + steel rig for some time. Excellent rig by the way!

 

[cool_hardware52]

I agree that the difference in drag etc. between a 30 and 40 is not huge.

I must say I find it curious that the recommendations are essentially "buy an oversized wing so you need not be careful in determining your weighting".

That's seems contrary to the essence of DIR

A little pool time is a good thing. Understanding what dictates required lift, and adjusting total weighting has been a useful tool for me.


Tobin

 

[Ben_ca]

Have you read the Bay Area Underwater Explorers (BAUE) FAQ on wing size?

What Size BC Wing Should I Buy?

I would start looking for the DIR guys there in SD and they'll steer you the right way.... If you cant find any PM me and I'll find you some.

Most DIR guys get where they want by an informal mentoring system...You see someone interested, you guide him and groom to be a good DIR dive buddy. That's the best way to introduce then progress into the DIR ranks.

Here on SB there's a lot of static from the naysayers in the peanut gallery... (I think I hear them coming....)

 

[mheaster]

I was contemplating same thing - 30 or 40 pound wing? I wound up with Eclipse 40 (still wondering if I made correct decision)

I have not yet dove with it but will next weekend. I am reading SB and looking at my Halcyon Multifunction Owner's Manual at same time:

"With the appropriate balanced rig, the Eclipse 30 lb wing, is designed for light to medium weight aluminum and steel single cylinders; the Eclipse 40 is appropriate for all single cylinders."

The manual also recommends in-water weight testing and cautions about diving the rig with too much fixed, un-ditchable weights.