3 Divers lost on the Spiegel Grove

[Dash]

I dont mean to cause any pain here. The empathetic side of myself feels for these guys and the people that knew them.

But hte more hardened, technical side cant help but note how many mistakes were made, and how these guys are generally thought of as great divers.

These guys may have been technically proficient, but they werent great divers. If the things that Tridacna say are true, then how can these guys be held in such high esteem, as divers?
They undertook a dive that they would probably councel their students to never do. They have probably sat around and talked about other diver deaths and professed that they would never do the things that got other divers dead, like we all do.

Its one thing to hold these guys up and say they were great people, and I dont doubt that. Its another thing to hold them up as examples of great divers. Its not that they made a mistake, we all make mistakes. Its not that they didnt train properly, hey we all train and still screw up sometimes. Its that they planned this against all good training. They HAD to know that what they were doing, and how they were doing it, was not in line with their training and experience, especially considering this statement from Tridacna about how Howard almost got trapped not too long ago. The statement by Tridacna that these guys were "risk-averse", rings very hollow.

As I gain more experience, I hope to become as technically proficient as these guys were. I also hope, at the same time, that I never become like them.

Sorry if this upsets people, its not a personal statement, Im just trying to learn.

 

[Walter]

Dash, over confidence is a killer. If you're really good, you know it. If you know it, you are sometimes tempted to cut corners on easy dives knowing you can handle it. You'll cut corners and even when something goes wrong, you do handle it. That adds to the over confidence. There are some things that go wrong, even on easy dives, that no one can handle. When that happens, sometimes people die.

It was about 1990 that my over confidence got the better of me. I honestly did not think I would live to tell the tale. I was lucky, I made it with no injuries other than to my ego. It was a very good learning experience, I no longer cut corners. From the description, Howard recently had hiis own experience with over confidence. If he'd learned that lesson, he could still be here with us today.

 

[dave4868]

Reposted elsewhere.

Sorry.

Dave C

 

[IXΘYΣ]

I cannot adequately express how incredibly easy it is to get disoriented and turned around in a siltout. It can be total and immediate, and within just a very few feet of the entrance.

This is so true. The first and only time this happened to me I got directionally disoriented so fast it was like "wow!" I can't believe that happened. Luckily I was in open water so ascending above the silt was all it took to survive, but man, was it ever a surprise!

 

[Missdirected]

A friendly reminder that this forum serves as a learning experience to many. There is a reason it is here and not part of any memorial thread. Thinking through the possibilities, wether they turn out to be correct or not, causes many to think of their own techniques, if you will. Many find it quite thought provoking.

 

[dave4868]

We've been very fortunate to have so much first-hand information here, including from those who provided a glimpse of the victims' previous taking of high risks in diving, possibly needlessly.

I'm not quoting the original posters because it's not fair to draw them further into a possibly negative critique of their lost friends.

Speaking generally then, can someone provide some wisdom about how we can individually deal with our own taking of unnecessary high risk?

And why we might be taking that risk?

I've been guilty of it too, even though the risks have been much less than what was undertaken on the Spiegle Grove that day. It depends the individual's ability, I will be first to admit.

When does this natural enjoyment of mastering difficult risky challenges become a self-indulgent folly of thrill-seeking?

It's not like some greater cause is served by these difficult and risky scuba dives. It's basically self-indulgent. I'm guilty, too.

Thanks to people more knowledgable than I, the technical mistakes of this accident are pretty clear.

However, does the wreck diving debate over using progressive penetration rather than guidelines hinge on something other than the risk of entanglement versus risk of entrapment?

Is the reason behind some wreckers going with progressive penetration really about the risk of entanglement?

I wonder if the motivation to choose progressive penetration results more from a desire to increase the risk and challenge, and hence, increase the accomplishment and narcissistic self-satisfaction.

I think the most important lesson is how to moderate our attitudes so we can avoid such folly.

Dave C

 

[Dash]

Dave, good post.

Clearly the real lesson to be learned from this tragedy is not whether to use a reel vs. strobes, it is the mental aspect that allows a diver to undertake certain activities.

Its the thinking.

 

[stevetim]

Again, wait for the accident anaysis. you make suppositions but you don't really know happened. wait for the analysis!

Try reading some more posts and a lot of your analysis is already here. Start with post 329 and work your way back.

 

[Gombessa]

For the non-technical or less-experienced divers, it sounds like a major silt-out is something that is extremely dangerous and has a high probability of happening (especially with inadequate training/technique), but is also generally unknown, or perhaps unexpected despite knowing better. Especially after reading that decostop post Rick posted, I was just thinking how it might be useful to have a "silt-out" simulator using a standard FPS game that shows interactively how easy and fast it is to go to zero vis in a confined environment, perhaps modeling it on a small, maze-like wreck. Or taking a step back, just play a video during OW training of actual divers getting silted out while holding a reel. I know this is a bit off-topic as the SG divers here were experienced and technically trained, but IMO it's never too early to become educated on the dangers.

 

[CAPNJAK]

From what I have been told, the area they went to was a very tight venture down a long shaft leading into tight quarters as for it being off limits, I never asked. They went to where they wanted to go and bad things happened, they are the only ones that know exactly what and why!

This ship as everyone knows was on its side for quite a while and when it was turned upright many things happened to the entire structure. Things that were sealed off, mother nature opened, things that were opened were sealed off. Many lines were run as permanant in this wreck before it was turned upright so you never know what you will run into when you dive this type of wreck.

Dive Safe

Joe