3 Divers lost on the Spiegel Grove

[Missdirected]

From what I have been told, the area they went to was a very tight venture down a long shaft leading into tight quarters as for it being off limits, I never asked. They went to where they wanted to go and bad things happened, they are the only ones that know exactly what and why!

This ship as everyone knows was on its side for quite a while and when it was turned upright many things happened to the entire structure. Things that were sealed off, mother nature opened, things that were opened were sealed off. Many lines were run as permanant in this wreck before it was turned upright so you never know what you will run into when you dive this type of wreck.

Dive Safe

Joe

Thanks Joe. 'tis very much appreciated.

Just to re-cap for others:
Quote:

Originally Posted by D3Diver
The Key West Citizen List the Instructors who brought up the first diver as Stephen Collins and Joe Kellogg. I know one of these guys and they are from this shop Underwater Adventure in Gainesville, GA. Question- I know that Stephen takes his underwater video camera everywhere, even on student trips; does know whether or not Stephen was running his video camera? , I was just wondering, might shed some light on where and how they found the first diver.
D3Diver

Quoted from CAPNJACK:

UWARK made a very good post here, he is my brother so I may be a little bias.

Stephen and I did find the first of the three divers and brought him to the surface.

This is a very unfortunate accident and I hope everyone that has read about or talked about this incident learns from all the critisisms, possibilities of what happened or what could have happened and what actually happened.

I assure you all that all of the information that we recalled during the dive and upon the discovery of the unresponsive diver was passed on to all agencies and authorities for thier process to investigate.

Joe /end quote

CAPNJACK, thank you for your post. May I ask if you know anything about the Pump Room? If in fact it is an off-limits area. Thanking you in advance.

 

[uspap]

The post that said the one diver had been in a similar situation before makes me think. It opened my eyes to what could happen to all of us over time. We may make it out of a bad situation and then push the bar a little further.

I lost a friend under similar circumstances (although not diving). I was saddened when I heard my friend had died but not surprised. He died doing something he loved was no consolation to his widow and two small children.

This makes me stop and think of who we may leave behind if things go wrong.

 

[Steve P]

What a beneficial topic, though sad. I won't forget it for a long time (hopefully lesson learned forever). Rick, that was a scary article. Thanks for sharing.

Yes, thanks Rick for both the silt-out article and your comments.

Every dive we make involves some level of risk. Where we "draw the line" between whats acceptable and what's not is a key issue here.

As for myself, I know next time I'm faced with an overhead environment, be it a short coral swim through or a wreck penetration I will first ask myself could I easily extract myself with my eyes closed.

 

[bperrybap]

From the description, Howard recently had hiis own experience with over confidence. If he'd learned that lesson, he could still be here with us today.

Wasn't Howard the surviving diver?

--- bill

 

[rscalzo]

Yes...

 

[wscdive]

I honestly havent read all 41 pages, skimmed through a bunch of them and see alot of questions/comments on penetration technique. I urge anyone interested in learning line techniques to take a cavern/intro cave course. I had been an instructor for six years before changing shops to one whose owner insists that all of her instructors have these two courses and what an eye opener it was for me!! Being left holding a rock on the bottom of a huge room 600' back in a cave with no lights will definitely make you respect following the rules all of the time. With no guidline your chance of making it out are slim or none. I never pass the cavern zone (where you can see out) without a line out. As my cave instructor said, the tecniques and rules you use in a cave can save your life anywhere. redundant air.. redundant light..continuous guidline to open water...EVERY TIME!!!!! skip one and you are risking your life.

 

[Buoyant1]

I honestly havent read all 41 pages, skimmed through a bunch of them and see alot of questions/comments on penetration technique. I urge anyone interested in learning line techniques to take a cavern/intro cave course. I had been an instructor for six years before changing shops to one whose owner insists that all of her instructors have these two courses and what an eye opener it was for me!! Being left holding a rock on the bottom of a huge room 600' back in a cave with no lights will definitely make you respect following the rules all of the time. With no guidline your chance of making it out are slim or none. I never pass the cavern zone (where you can see out) without a line out. As my cave instructor said, the tecniques and rules you use in a cave can save your life anywhere. redundant air.. redundant light..continuous guidline to open water...EVERY TIME!!!!! skip one and you are risking your life.

The back side of all of this great info has only one problem, just hope no one without the "PROPER TRAINING" tries these techniques just because you read about them here!
Knowing these techniques is great, but not being properly trained on how to actually perform them is another ball game!

We don't want to read about anyone here (or on the Darwin Awards site either)

Rick's article link is a good thing to read before you think about attempting to do that as well! (great story)

 

[Rick Murchison]

While I agree with the reel issue why are we not talking about the lack of gas management? I believe they still would have had a fighting chance with proper gas management.

Proper gas management isn't in dispute. Everyone's pretty much in agreement on the rule of thirds, and agrees that in this case they could/should have had more gas. The ongoing argument, for years, has been over progressive penetration without a guideline (with or without strobes or other "exit" lights) vs continuous guideline to open water. This mishap has settled that argument; a continuous guideline to open water must be the standard for wreck penetrations. Reservations about entanglement and lines getting cut can easily be addressed with technique and training. Nothing but a guideline is satisfactory in a total siltout, and total siltouts are an integral part of wreck penetration.
Rick

 

[daniel f aleman]

No continuous guideline to open water, and a lack of proper gas management. One wonders how this passed the scrutiny of all four divers, all experienced divers.

What were they thinking while gearing up?

 

[AXL72]

hey axl72, it sounds like you know a little bit about sat diving, bit i'd like to be the first to tell you that is not a sat dive. it is easily within heo2 limits or air/nitrox (within the limits that you suggest) and should not take long. but good on you for posting that it needs to be a surface-supplied rescue op! when donathon died i always wondered why they didn't use s/s rigs to go and do the recovery. unbeknownst to yall, it's not that expensive and it's a hell of a lot safer...

I know the depth is within HeO2. The sat was a means to say, use a chamber and avoid any deco stops and allowing near unlimited bottom time.

You are right, probably overkill at these depths.

A commercial dive boat spread is fairly expensive. Perhaps I overestimate. Don't forget to factor in mobilization and demobilization costs, in addition to the day rate for the spread.