3 Divers lost on the Spiegel Grove

[jtivat]

They didn't use reels. That's the point. Had they used reels we wouldn't be mourning their loss.
The lesson from this horrible mishap is that the progressive penetration/strobe protocol for wreck penetration is an abject failure that resulted in three needless fatalities; it needs to be junked in favor of the continuous guideline to open water.
Rick

While I agree with the reel issue why are we not talking about the lack of gas management? I believe they still would have had a fighting chance with proper gas management.

 

[H2Andy]

well, they wouldn't have needed the extra gas had they had a reel

to put it another way, the lack of a reel was the primary cause of the tragedy; the fact that they didnt' carry their gas with them was a contributory factor

(in my own view, of course)

my other lesson from this is, never underestimate an overhead environment. as beningn as it may look, it will silt up on you faster than you can think, and you better be prepared.

 

[H2Andy]

1. Scott, Kevin and John were very experienced divers. I have dived with all of them many times and was instructed by Scott and Howard. John and I did our Asst. Instr. course together. They were risk averse safe divers. I believe that the accident was a horrible accident caused by over-confidence and a stupid attitude of invincibility.

i am very sorry. this must be hard for you.

 

[Rick Murchison]

... Like Steve, I'd like to know: where do you draw the line?

My perspective:
The biggest gotcha is silt behind you. With that in mind, a swim-through where you can see the exit before you enter, and you can see the route is clear of entangling wires, lines etc, and there are no hindrances to a freeswimming passage to open water all the way, that's ok. Likewise, if you can see the next exit and a clear passage before you pass the first one you could see, then you can safely continue. If you can't see the exit ahead, it isn't a swimthrough and all the rules of wreck penetration apply. As I mentioned earlier, one of Ricky's Rules for Recks is an ability to exit with eyes closed.
I cannot adequately express how incredibly easy it is to get disoriented and turned around in a siltout. It can be total and immediate, and within just a very few feet of the entrance. I've attached a writeup from DrMike that he posted a couple of years ago over on the Deco Stop that should be mandatory reading for anyone contemplating wreck penetration, however slight!
Rick

 

[tridacna]

i am very sorry. this must be hard for you.

Thanks. The hardest part are the comments from guys who have no idea about these guys. Total guessing and ridiculous comments about their lack of diving skill. Anyone who knew Scott would be flabbergasted by these comments. He made a safe ascent from the Doria with a buddy who's tri-rig had busted out. He buddy-breathed with him from 200+ feet making stops. Changing gases. Never leaving the guy's side. He gets on-board and is cheerful and never says anything negative. I suppose that after the Doria, everything seems easy. NOT.

Correction: The funeral will be the hardest part.

 

[H2Andy]

well, i think early on their credentials surfaced. at least i became aware of their experience as wreck divers

... it just became a matter of why they dropped their guard, as it were, on the Grove

 

[diver 85]

And that makes sense, but did these poor guys have enough time on this wreck to go THAT DEEP into it? In the case someone brought up of Chatterton and the Doria previously as an example, I'm sure he didn't go three decks deep on his second or third dive on it...

Shadow Divers illustrates his progression into the U-869..it wasn't a "few" dives.

I feel so bad for these guys, but this was so preventable...

20/20 hindsight!

.........20/20???...try for best in the future, 20/07 is the 'best' a human eye can obtain......I try for 20/10 with most of my patients that have no opacities or macula problems........

 

[AXL72]

Thanks. The hardest part are the comments from guys who have no idea about these guys. Total guessing and ridiculous comments about their lack of diving skill. Anyone who knew Scott would be flabbergasted by these comments. He made a safe ascent from the Doria with a buddy who's tri-rig had busted out. He buddy-breathed with him from 200+ feet making stops. Changing gases. Never leaving the guy's side. He gets on-board and is cheerful and never says anything negative. I suppose that after the Doria, everything seems easy. NOT.

Correction: The funeral will be the hardest part.

Hey tri....i defended the guys

Did not know them, but from the details of reports available, they are vindicated in my mind as competant.

I am deeply sad and sorry.

You can tell that their deaths have touched many people. Probably everyone on Scubaboard has gotten wound up on this story.

The near-miss account is shocking, but they are dead and the way they died is still horrible.

 

[BubblesUp]

I've attached a writeup from DrMike that he posted a couple of years ago over on the Deco Stop that should be mandatory reading for anyone contemplating wreck penetration, however slight!
Rick

Wow. His account was frightening, humbling, and quite thought-provoking. Thanks for sharing!

 

[highlandfarmwv]

What a beneficial topic, though sad. I won't forget it for a long time (hopefully lesson learned forever). Rick, that was a scary article. Thanks for sharing.