3 Day wonder certifications

[nauifins73]

I can speak from experience.

Not realizing it I took one of those 3 day wonder courses. My son, daughter and I was taking the course for the 1st time - my husband was talked in to taking it with us. He was certified in 1969. I picked up our books on Thurs and the so called class started on Fri. evening. After a short classroom time we got in the pool - the Instructor did not even check us for weights just jumped in and started so called teaching. No one could even stay down long enough for see him for a moment.

We continued Sat from 10 to 5 and Sun 9 until noon. Little bit of classroom time and some pool time.

Time for final test - it was handed out, the Instructor said he was going for a cup of coffee - good luck & do what you need to do to finish it.

I should have never even done the open water checkouts under those conditions.

I did stick with it and asked my husband and dive buddies a gillion questions until I finally understood what I needed to know. I now have 89 dives and working on my Dive Con level.

But if I had not had experienced divers as good friends I hate to think what might have happened - I had no business in the water.

We are talking about a sport that requires life support to do - taking it lightly is not the way it should be taught. When a new student goes into class he has no idea as to what he needs to learn but a good Instructor will teach him until he has learned. Unfortunately I didn't not have a good Instructor but have since found a great LDS and great Instructor who is will to answer my questions no matter how many times I ask.

With all that said not even the best student and best Instructor can learn/teach all that needs to be learned & taught in 3 short days.

NAUI was not the OW course I took

I will now step off of my soapbox but you hit a nerve with me that has been exposed since Aug of 99.

Becky

 

[kwesler]

that is a real horror story. I am glad you got past it!

Ken

 

[fgray1]

You made my point
I know I've been on dives where it was obvious who was the 3 day wonders. If you happen to go on a dive charter and get stuck with one of them. You have to make a decision right up front. If I get in trouble do I reley on them or plan on a self rescue. If they get in trouble do you try and save them and risk you life doing so. I've seem them inflate the BCD at 40ft and bolt to to surface. I've seem them grab the snorkel to decend. Forget to put there mask on. Forget to turn on the air.
Bounce off the bottom. Decend in the dieing cockrouch position (legs and arms staight up and butt first) All I know is the manual cannot be finish and and matirial remembered in one night by most people. I've talked to some people that have done this 3 day class and most the most part they remember very little.
Anyone can shove a tank on there back a regulator in there mouth and dive but that does not a diver make. I ask everyone I don't know questions to try and get a sence of what they know for my own protection.
I just think that there's enough hazards in diving to worry about without adding a 3 day wonder to it.
Good luck if you have to dive with one of the 3 day wonders.

Fred

 

[Seadiver5]

As a scuba instructor with nearly 30 years of diving experience I can tell you that not all students are made equal.

I know of many divers who were great divers right out of the gate after one of these courses and I know of many divers who were completely incompetent after an intense 6 week course.

I must admit that most students should have more training and I personally feel a 3 week class is the best way to go. At least for the Seattle area where I teach. But if you have what it takes to be good after one of the short courses I think they sould be available.

I think it is also important for everyone to remember that the basic class is only the beginning and formal continuing education should be sought by and or recommended to all open water divers.

Kevin Parkhurst
IDEA instructor 3402

 

[SDAnderson]

Do I think the 3 day "wonder classes" are a "good thing?" Compared to what? Relative to no training? Yes, I do. Relative to the pseudo-combat training I got 30+ years ago? Yes, I do.

You toss around terms like "incompetent" and "danger" pretty freely and it seems you've appointed yourself to the position of Chief Nanny, which I didn't know we were trying to fill. Divers aren't getting hurt by the bushel. According to DAN statistics, there is a statistical corrolary between the advent of PADI style training and a substantial reduction in the injury rate for divers - which it the only real measure of whether or not divers are a danger to themselves. Yes, there are a lot of divers out there that make me nervous, but they tend to either get better or quit the sport (and they DON'T tend to get killed) and that's okay. In the meantime, atomizing the classes into bite-sized units directed towards specific objectives and skills has made diving more accessible and more fun. Which is a good thing, in case you were wondering.

It would be okay with me, however, if you were to harpoon a couple of coral crunching newbies.

fgray1 once bubbled...
Does anyone here think the 3 day wonder classes are a good thing.
I think they sould be banned. In my opinion they produce incompetent divers that are a danger to themselves and the other divers around them.
And I don't just mean for open water cert.

Just my opinion

Fred

 

[Knavey]

Banned? No way. I am a product of a three day wonder class. Started on a Friday night, ended on Sunday evening. My checkout dives were 20 foot vis and in a lake. Did it leave me capable of diving under that condition? Sure...I really would rather have qualified on 100 foot vis and on a tropical island, but that was not an option.

At the time I was in the military, and did not have the time to devote to several hours a week, several weeks in a row. No way would I have ever gotten certified if I had to do that.

I sat through my wifes cert class several years later...she did the course over several weeks. Same material, slower pace. I would have been bored to tears at that pace initially. Since it was a refresher course (sort of) for me when Cindy was going through it, I got a lot more out of it than I think I would have if it was the first time.

I think every style of course has its place. Those 5 week jobbers produce idiots just like the three day courses. I think it just boils down to the instructor, and not the agency also.

Just my 2psi.

 

[adshepard]

Genesis once bubbled...


In all sobriety, why should you, or anyone else, have the right to tell me, as another free individual, how to allocate risk in MY life?

I certainly go along with this statement. It's my life and my concern not anone else's.

Sometimes I hear the argument that should I get in to trouble you'll have to attempt a rescue or body recovery. That's your problem I didn't ask you to do anything like that.

DSDO

Alan

 

[fgray1]

If you can be a competant diver in 3 days Fine
If you can't You pass anyway.
Now is where the trouble begins.
Do you go back and tell the instuctor I suck at this and know nothing or take the card and say I'll just learn as I go from the others divers. Now we all learn as we go but not the basics.

Why not just forgo the training all together just buy and read the book and learn on your own.
See I was under the assumption thats why you get certified.
Or maybe we can do a half certification OK to dive but buddy beware.
3 day wonders learn just enough to get themselves in trouble !!!

Fred

 

[crispos]

This is a good thread. This is not a commercial. I have mixed feelings about the weekend pool course, which is the one I teach when I do pool. I taught 8 people how to dive Saturday and Sunday. Forget the 3 day course, this was the 2 day course.

I spent 9-9 pm teaching them including going back to the LDS Sunday night to prepare and give the test to two busy film and radio professionals, that don't have the time waiting around at a scuba club for the instructor to show up and spend several hours doing the simplest skills at his/her leisure over and over again.

At home, Sunday night at 10:30pm (my grateful students took me out for a beer!). I was tired but pleased with my performance. I was abit miffed my "DM" was a Rescue diver trainee who misweighted my students due to inexperience and also had an attitude problem given he didn't quite know what he was doing. I had to reweight several students on the fly. I didn't get a chance to do a couple of non-critical skills that I like to teach. I did the CESA three times for one student. I do not sign my name if the skill was not performed adequately to standard.

All of these students are going down South or to Asia to do their checkouts in the near future. I have already agreed to help a few of them find OWSI's but I dare say, I don't want to take the responsibility of the final selection for liability purposes. How the hell do I know the Open Water Instructor is going to be good and not faced with the similar time and competitive pressures I feel?

Do I believe these are incompetent student divers waiting for an accident? No, I think they did very well and I gave them the confidence to continue. I quoted DAN statistics to them and my own personal research on dive safety. I gave them specific information regarding how to do boat and shore diving in the tropical locals they are going to visit. But sure, I would have liked another session to do more elaboration, practice diving, etc.

Market conditions in the GTA (Greater Toronto Area) require that we deliver the scuba course in a weekend at a very competitive price. Anyone think differently?

I did everything I could humanly do to make them good, informed student divers. I told them, my reward will be if the OW Instructor they go to says the Instructor that did their pool did a good job.

I guess my "mixed" feeling is, that the 2 day or 3 day course puts the Instructor over a barrel. We have to really hustle to make it happen and follow standards. It takes incredible patience and I don't do them very often. It takes a very helpful conscientious LDS owner who equally insists on standards being followed. I think sometimes it just isn't fair, and yeah, the abusers should be fingered and put out of business. :boom:

 

[kwesler]

I think what is giving some of us heartburn about your statements is how general they are...sure SOME divers out of 3 day classes should not be in the water...likewise SOME divers who take full length classes should not be in the water. Some people will NEVER be decent divers-wrong temperment for it I guess.

You repeated the point I m ade earlier: the problem is not the length of the class, but the fact that the cards are given out regardless of whether they are earned. I cannot off the top of my head think of anything else you train for where that is the case. Driving? nope...Flying? nope!

Ken