3 day Scuba Certification: Hawaii

[g1138]

So my friend from highschool got around to adding me on skype randomly and we had a short conversation.
He mentioned that he was getting certified in Hawaii.
I thought, "Great! must be a short class though"
Well curiosity got the better of me, so I asked him. He replied "3 days"

O_O

I didn't really have the heart to bash the course, I don't even know what resort or agency he's taking it from, let alone the instructor teaching it.
But really, what can I say without getting making him feel like I'm trying to bring him down?
Is 3 days really enough? Even for a vacation diver? (which I'm pretty sure is the category he'd fall into)

My friend's a pretty carefree guy and really laid back.
I told him he should get a book to study up a bit after completing the course, but he just replied with a comment that I'd rather not quote for fear of being moderated

Anyways I just spewing thoughts on the board late at night.
What's your opinions on courses like these?
Any experiences taking a course like this?

 

[DevonDiver]

I didn't really have the heart to bash the course, I don't even know what resort or agency he's taking it from, let alone the instructor teaching it.

It's wise not to pre-judge a course based upon it's duration alone.

I've run tailored 'short-courses' that have fitted more hours of tuition into them than courses that I've spread over longer durations.

What matters is that the instructor does not compromise standards. The risk with a short-course is that the student will not have time to assimiliate all of the skills and knowledge at the required level of 'mastery'.

In response to this, the instructor might add extra days to the course, or have the student join a following course, to ensure that standards are met. GOOD.

Alternatively, if the students can't keep pace with the training, then an instructor may feel pressured to compromise the standards and certify the student anyway. BAD.

A third outcome would be 'part-certification' that student (i.e. the PADI 'scuba diver' certification). It's acceptable, but rarely give satisfaction. UGLY.

But really, what can I say without getting making him feel like I'm trying to bring him down? Is 3 days really enough? Even for a vacation diver? (which I'm pretty sure is the category he'd fall into)

I've taught 3-day courses. There are divers who have the capability to assimiliate the OW course requirements in that time. There are also divers who cannot.

If the courses are run as 'fast-track'... with a sound system of remedial training (re-coursing) available if students cannot maintain progress with the course timescales, then it is fine IMHO.

Likewise, the actual amount of student-instructor interaction is vital. This means that student-instructor ratios have a big impact. A short course that is run with 1-2 students, allows much more individual instruction than one that includes 6-8 students. This is especially true when it comes to the Open Water dives.

You can do a 2-week Open Water course.... but it will still include just 4 dives. If there is 8 students per instructor... that means that the instructor has a relatively tiny amount of time per student to make progress.

If the courses are simply run as a 3-day 'pay your money, get your cert card' scheme, then they are wrong in every respect.

 

[g1138]

Thanks Andy,
I agree with you completely.
It is best for me not to jump to conclusions.

But even still it seems like a huge rush to fit everything in such a short amount of time.
Even with stellar instruction, it doesn't seem like there's much time for anything to sink in and be retained.

 

[DevonDiver]

Even with stellar instruction, it doesn't seem like there's much time for anything to sink in and be retained.

Example 3-Day Course Plan

Evening Pre-Course: Student enrolls on course and recieves manual. Student completes knowledge reviews 1-3 that evening.

Morning Day 1: Students complete/review KRs 1-3 and complete the associated quizzes.
8am-12pm (4 hours)

Afternoon Day 1: Confined Water 1-3.
1pm - 6pm (5 hours)

Evening Day 1: Students self-study KRs 4-5.

Morning Day 2: Students complete/review KRs 4-5 and complete the associated quizzes.
8am-12pm (4 hours)

Afternoon Day 2: Confined Water 4-5. Open Water Dive 1.
1pm - 6pm (5 hours)

Evening Day 2: Students self-study for Exam. Students complete dive plans for OW 2-4.

Morning Day 3: Open water dives 2 and 3.
8am-12pm (4 hours)

Afternoon Day 3: Open water dive 4. Final exam.
1pm - 6pm (5 hours)

 

[Pullmyfinger]

I think this sort of course schedule might be fairly common. I know three guys that just got certified last weekend.
The course they took consisted of one night of classroom, and two days in the water.
I've heard from others that had similar schedules for getting certified.
This is why I charter 6-packs, and am selective about who I dive with.
I've been on plenty of the 42 ft. Boats before that were filled with newly certified divers from these 3 day specials.
I try to minimize and chances of incidental contact. ;-)
I'm sure they are all having "fun".....but I'm looking for a different kind of fun.
I think these express certifications do a real disservice to the students, who don't really know better.
Not much you can really say about it to your friend though, he's probably already attracted to the idea of a 3-day special.
There's always better quality instruction later on down the road for those who want it....something to get them un-f@#*ed.

-Mitch

 

[DevonDiver]

Fair points.

I think that the core problem isn't that courses are condensed into 2-3 days; it is because the courses can be condensed into 2-3 days.

20 skills in confined water, plus 4 open dives, fits easily into 3 days. Whether that amount of training makes a diver competant (as defined by the agencies: an 'independant diver, not requiring supervision') is another issue.

Those instructors who enlarge the OW course so that it fulfills the aim (independant diver) rather than meeting the training requirements, do so by adding training.

 

[Pullmyfinger]

For the student, it's variable. They don't know what they are going to get, and don't know what to ask.

From what I've read of your posts D.D., the students that find themselves in your classes are very fortunate.

-Mitch

 

[ZenDiver.3D]

Can and should are very different. Can it be done? Yep. Should it be done, as a rule? I don't think so.

 

[knowone]

Proficiency is dependent on ability + post course diving frequency + ability.

 

[ZenDiver.3D]

Proficiency is dependent on ability + post course diving frequency + ability.

I disagree. Proficiency is based on proper training +ability+practice (both during training and after certification.