2nd shallow dive, Dcs like symptoms ?!

[Steve_C]

Slightly off topic but I prefer to put air in with the inflator button and release air by pulling on the inflator hose. Zero chance of confusing and easy to do in horizontal trim and helpful with rental BCDs which vary in how the inflator is set up.

 

[spectrum]

Actually, I don't think you need to be a DAN member to call them, you just need to be a member to get insurance, no?

On this page they stop just short of saying "you do not need to be a member to receive medical consultation" so I believe you are correct. Of course if they send you to the chamber you will wish you had the coverage unless you have it elsewhere.

Pete

 

[GrimSleeper]

If you have had pain in multiple joints that has persisted for over two weeks and is enough to impact what you do, I'd see a physician. I think it's highly unlikely to be Type I DCS, based on profile and also the fact that DCS rarely affects multiple joints AND muscles, unless there's a much more significant provocation than what you are describing. (I suspect most divers in the Puget Sound region have had at least one or more uncontrolled ascents, without subsequent symptoms!) In addition, restless legs is not a symptom of DCS. However, you may have a physical illness that is producing your pain and which needs to be diagnosed.

I definitely agree the OP needs to see a doctor, but you're assuming Type I DCS is the only possible hyperbaric injury and thus discounting it. Something like 65% of apparently 'unearned' recreational bends are Type II if I remember the numbers correctly, and a significant proportion of those involve some degree of damage to the spinal chord - which does then affect, or appear to affect, multiple joints and muscles below the site of the insult, and can also lead to restless legs. After I suffered spinal DCS, I frequently woke up to find my legs in all sorts of weird positions and to this day my left heel will drum vigorously in my sleep if I have particularly exerted myself during the day.

The profile doesn't preclude a Type II bend, either - I know two people who have suffered severe 'unearned' spinal bends on dives to 10m or less, in both cases probably because of having a PFO. It's probably too late to do anything about the bend itself if the OP has suffered what is anything but a 'mild' case of DCS, but I definitely wouldn't discount DCS as the cause of the symptoms and would strongly recommend consulting a hyperbaric doctor (and possibly having a test for a PFO, too, if the OP is going to continue diving).

 

[dallaskincaid]

On this page they stop just short of saying "you do not need to be a member to receive medical consultation" so I believe you are correct. Of course if they send you to the chamber you will wish you had the coverage unless you have it elsewhere.

Pete

I think you're going to get limited assistance, for sure. However, they will certainly point you in the right direction. And you're right, for anyone who dives there is absolutely no excuse to not have dive insurance. It costs next to nothing and unless your financially independent just a single incident could put you in financial ruin...not to mention the logistics of getting from a foreign country back home.

 

[cocoajoe]

Slightly off topic but I prefer to put air in with the inflator button and release air by pulling on the inflator hose. Zero chance of confusing and easy to do in horizontal trim and helpful with rental BCDs which vary in how the inflator is set up.

Agree. I only use deflator button when I descend from surface

 

[TSandM]

GrimSleeper, you are quite correct that Type II is more common in recreational divers and in people with large PFOs. However, the OP didn't recount any kind of neurologic symptoms at all -- no vertigo, no weakness, no incoordination -- so I did discount Type II as a diagnosis, and I think that's what DAN would likely say to him as well. And I think I'll still stand by my statement that diffuse pain in multiple joints AND muscles is not a typical presentation of DCS, although I will ask Duke Dive Medicine, who has MUCH more experience and information on this topic than I do, to weigh in here as well.

 

[Duke Dive Medicine]

Hey,
I'm new to diving, and had my 2nd dive 2 weeks ago. All was well during this shallow dive, went to 11 meters for 40 mins. Towards the end of the dive and around the 8 meters, I mistakenly inflated instead of deflating and had a quick speed ascent ( what a stupid mistake.)
Well went back to 5 meters after until the shore which took 8 mins. Surfaced,packed everything and arrived home. Feeling extremely tired and some mild joint pain after 2 hours decided to sleep to rest.
woke up with extreme fatigue and the joints and muscles pain increased, called my instructor and after reviewing the dive profile he said no way to be a dcs. Pain continued with restless legs. Took a flight after 48 hours and came back after a week. On flight all was well, but until today the joints and muscle mild pain persists.
can it be a mild dcs? Even with this short and shallow dive? I'm getting a bit paranoid, even though logically the dcs is far from being occurring with this diving profile.
Anyone experienced something similar? Any advices?

Sam,

Interesting case. I'm wondering what led you to use the words "extreme fatigue". Are you 100% certain of your depth? Concur with TSandM in that DCS is unlikely given the information provided, but I don't think it can be completely ruled out, especially without an exam and a more complete history. It's not altogether impossible to have DCS pain in multiple joints and connective tissue and one could argue that that could be classified as Type II DCS, although the dive profile doesn't really support that diagnosis. In any event, hyperbaric treatment is unlikely to be of any benefit at this point. It would be a good idea to be evaluated by a diving physician, and I wish I had a recommendation for someone in Lebanon. Some other members mentioned DAN Europe; here's a link to the contact info for their regional offices: DAN Europe - Regional offices.

Best regards,
DDM

 

[Sam_999]

Sam,

Interesting case. I'm wondering what led you to use the words "extreme fatigue". Are you 100% certain of your depth? Concur with TSandM in that DCS is unlikely given the information provided, but I don't think it can be completely ruled out, especially without an exam and a more complete history. It's not altogether impossible to have DCS pain in multiple joints and connective tissue and one could argue that that could be classified as Type II DCS, although the dive profile doesn't really support that diagnosis. In any event, hyperbaric treatment is unlikely to be of any benefit at this point. It would be a good idea to be evaluated by a diving physician, and I wish I had a recommendation for someone in Lebanon. Some other members mentioned DAN Europe; here's a link to the contact info for their regional offices: DAN Europe - Regional offices.

Best regards,
DDM

Hi,
thank you for the reply.
actually the word extreme fatigue is associated with the feeling of being unable to move from bed, and when walking i'm make an effort to remain up, as if my legs doesn't support my weight. As per my buddy dive computer, who was below my depth always, we reached 11m gradually as we did a shore dive that started at 3 and went to 11m . At 8m I had a fast ascend , after which I surfaced for 4 mins and went back to the shore.
As additional symptoms to what I described above, 2 days ago I started feeling pain in neck with my right and leg pain, mainly elbow and knee in addition to weakness in my hand. I am suspecting having such symptoms related to anxiety since I got anxious regarding this matter...
on Thursday I'll be checking an orthopedic since the diving medicine is not very popular here and I hope he can refer me somewhere. I'm wondering if any tests or analysis can be done to reveal if dcs occurred or no, such MRI?!

N.b : tried to contact DAN and still waiting a response, but anyway I think I'm going for a dive on Saturday.

 

[GrimSleeper]

actually the word extreme fatigue is associated with the feeling of being unable to move from bed, and when walking i'm make an effort to remain up, as if my legs doesn't support my weight.

Obviously, Duke Dive Medicine knows way more about this than I do, and TS&M is a doctor whilst I am not. I have, however, experienced spinal chord DCS and what you describe sounds horribly familiar... Which is not to say there aren't other possible reasons for your symptoms, but either way I'd strongly suggest you don't dive until you have spoken to a hyperbaric doctor or at least telephoned DAN Europe.

 

[Subcooled]

You got some possible symptoms of DCS following a dive. The symptoms got worse with time, as your body had time to react.

Excessive bubbles are foreign objects in your body and your immune system reacts (trying to kill the "virus" - the bubble) making you tired and possibly feeling ill.

There are people that know more about signs and symptoms and probabilities than me (I'm not a doctor). So maybe you do not have DCS (may be something else, like a flu, that also causes a sore body) or then your description of symptoms is not accurate. Or then you are the poor outlier point in the statistics, that always gets disregarded. A proper diagnosis would be good.

The dive depth may have been shallow, but the ascent speed may have been extreme, and you may have been dehydrated or you may have had excessive amounts of microbubbles present in your joints to begin with (ie. before the dive). Now how much did you sway your feet prior to the dive? Any sports? Carried gear afterwards? Forgot to drink water after the dive? Before the dive?

I have been told that if the pain goes away under pressure, you probably have DCS. If it doesn't you're blessed with some other interesting condition like the flu


There are bubbles in the joints to begin with (because of joint movement). A certain amount of bubble growth is needed to make you visibly ill. The VPM decompression algorithm calls this the "critical volume". Actually, VPM-B without the critical volume algorithm says that you would have needed a 7 minute stop at 3m. That long decompression is impractically long so the algorithm has been modified to allow some bubble growth (because small amounts won't get noticed). With this little addition the dive you described is an easy no-decompression dive for millions of people. We all have done similar dives without problems. But it's statistics only. If a million people don't get symptoms but you do... well... then there's the slight chance that you have some sort of mild DCS. Oops. Bad luck.

A recompression chamber would be my choice, if I were you.

I'm NOT an expert in this area so please call DAN, consult a real hyperbaric doctor and get a dignose.