2 more upper keys dive fatalities, 8/6/2011
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muzikbiz22
Contributor
I can't help but chime in on this one;
1 - Tech Divers are human and subject to bad decisions, conditions, moods, stupidity, etc., just like ANY diver of ANY level of certification or education.
2 - On a recent dive I had 2 separate incidents with 2 different tech divers. I caught one rinsing his mask in the camera bucket, ignoring ALL instructions in not to do so. I politely told him you should not be doing that. His response. "it's ok, it's just a little rinse". So I guess my $4000 camera rig, and others' cameras meant nothing to him. Wow, there's that "experience & training" in full swing. Same dive trip/day, we were experiencing strong current and all divers were re-called to the boat/step/ladder. My female buddy (5'3") had her hand on the ladder ready to come up and a male "tech diver" pushed her right out of the way with full force so HE could get up the ladder first. Absolutely no regard. I WAS BLOWN AWAY ! So much so, that I literally had to keep myself from putting my foot on top of his head and pushing him right under.
So with that said, I know I'm way off topic here, BUT, my experience with tech diver, (not all), has been tremendous ego's and constant "equipment issues". Not trying to offend anyone, and I'm certainly not perfect, but I am respectful and competent.
It would not surprise me one bit to learn that he was neutral when he ran out of gas, and then began to sink. Think about it -- when do you discover you are out of gas? Not at the end of a big inhalation! You discover it as you start to inhale, or even partly through an inhalation, and at that point, you do not or may not have enough air in your lungs to remain neutral.
I tried an exercise some time ago, about which I have written before: I exhaled, emulating a real OOG scenario, and then tried to swim to my husband, who was about 25 feet away. I discovered the swim was harder than I expected, because in addition to swimming across, I had to swim UP because I was negative with empty lungs.
So, even if the diver sank five or six feet, say, before getting a regulator, he may have been outside of the "buoyancy window" he could manage with breathing. He clearly did not think of orally inflating his BC (and I can easily see someone who's just been out of gas being reluctant to remove the regulator he just got, to do that) but did try to ditch his weights, which shows some presence of mind. And if the story is correct, neither he nor his would-be rescuer could get the job done. Which is a nasty reflection on whatever type of weight-integration he was using.
I tried an exercise some time ago, about which I have written before: I exhaled, emulating a real OOG scenario, and then tried to swim to my husband, who was about 25 feet away. I discovered the swim was harder than I expected, because in addition to swimming across, I had to swim UP because I was negative with empty lungs.
So, even if the diver sank five or six feet, say, before getting a regulator, he may have been outside of the "buoyancy window" he could manage with breathing. He clearly did not think of orally inflating his BC (and I can easily see someone who's just been out of gas being reluctant to remove the regulator he just got, to do that) but did try to ditch his weights, which shows some presence of mind. And if the story is correct, neither he nor his would-be rescuer could get the job done. Which is a nasty reflection on whatever type of weight-integration he was using.
Agreed... I'm trying to understand... If they were both close to OOA (one being there), then, even if one was over-weighted, I'd imagine the non-OOA could have inflated -- power or orally -- which should have provided enough buoyancy for both (assuming she had greater than 30# lift -- smaller wings are typically only found on BP/W rigs such as Oxycheq or DSS, and if they were astute enough to put together one of *those* rigs, they'd know how to weight and dump).This is WRONG on so many counts!
Couldn't get the weights out.
Didn't shed the BC to go for the surface.
Apparently didn't orally inflate the BC.
Out of three divers, no one could figure out how to the above. ****!
Of course all this is speculation, and armchair quarterbacking is just that... However, wouldn't be surprised if there were a few non-certified, or perhaps resort-dive trained individuals involved... Just seems they had too many options to extricate without a medical issue involved...
KeysCuda
Contributor
Additional details starting to come out, according to investigators:
- Male had some permanent medical issues but reportedly was relatively experienced (how experienced that was remains to be determined).
- However, he was wearing gear purchased previous day, which included an integrated weight system. He may have added weight following his first dive.
- First diver to reach him could not inflate her BC; the hose apparently had been disconnected due to a leak. She survived.
- Second diver to reach him did not have an octo. She and the male apparently died while trying to share her main (and only) second stage.
- No one knows exactly what happened after the first would-be rescuer surfaced.
- Male had some permanent medical issues but reportedly was relatively experienced (how experienced that was remains to be determined).
- However, he was wearing gear purchased previous day, which included an integrated weight system. He may have added weight following his first dive.
- First diver to reach him could not inflate her BC; the hose apparently had been disconnected due to a leak. She survived.
- Second diver to reach him did not have an octo. She and the male apparently died while trying to share her main (and only) second stage.
- No one knows exactly what happened after the first would-be rescuer surfaced.
When I first saw your post at my office, I was gonna call you out on it. I mean how many pounds of lift is in a man's half breath. 3 maybe? And hell, I started diving when double hose regs were still on the shelves with the new 2 stage single hose regs. We dived without BC's using steel 72 tanks. I had my buoyancy dialed in. We were several pounds negative for a good part of our dives and I never ever had to ditch my weights and I never died.
On the drive home, it occurred to me. The culprit in your scenario is the BCD. As the diver descends for whatever reason, the gas in the BCD, compresses and he quickly becomes more negative.
All the more reason for better training to get weighting and buoyancy dialed in. The BC is the great enabler. I wish I had a dollar for every time I've heard somebody on a charter saying "better to be over weighted, that's why we have BC's.
Still all conjecture, but I suspect if Mr. Moss was certified, he was very inexperienced and/or poorly trained.
Local folks: Please keep us informed as this will drop off the radar in Palm Beach by Wednesday. My daughter is 19 (invincible) and a diver. Anything I can use to caution her would be a positive. My inlaws are South of Marathon, so I don't know what feedback I will get on this incident.
PLEASE don't lump all tech divers . . . you were unfortunate to run into a couple of self-centered a-holes, but that was them personally, not the tech divers in whole.
Let us hope that more reliable information about this incident surfaces. Perhaps, we'll learn something from an autopsy.
It may be a tad early to lay blame.
It may be a tad early to lay blame.
A&I is NOT about laying blame!
It's about learning from others' mistakes. From this one, one can gain:
- Know your equipment
- Know how to ditch weights, and practice it!
- Know how to buddy breathe
- Practice ditching equipment in the pool! Bent is recoverable, drowned is not.
- Practice emergency procedures
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