OP
reefman
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2 more upper keys dive fatalities, 8/6/2011
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You know, we are all taught to do a buddy check, which includes checking to make sure that weights are installed and secure -- but I wonder how many people check to make sure that their integrated weights will come OUT? I know that, when we do the weight drop with students using the shop's jacket BCs, if the BCs are fully inflated, it is very difficult to remove the weight pouches. Now, admittedly, a BC shouldn't be very inflated when one is underwater, but it may be if the diver is overweighted, and it sounds as though this person may well have been.
Of course, worrying about whether weights will come out or not is rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. The bottom line is that people shouldn't run out of air, and if they have an equipment malfunction that results in that, their buddies should all have ENOUGH GAS TO GET TWO PEOPLE TO THE SURFACE! This is a basic concept that simply isn't taught, and should be.
Of course, worrying about whether weights will come out or not is rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. The bottom line is that people shouldn't run out of air, and if they have an equipment malfunction that results in that, their buddies should all have ENOUGH GAS TO GET TWO PEOPLE TO THE SURFACE! This is a basic concept that simply isn't taught, and should be.
OP
reefman
Contributor
it was their 2nd dive of the day. you could assume that the divers in question were @ the very least somewhat familiar with their equipment(and amount of lead for proper buoyancy) after having completed dive #1 earlier,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
reefman
key largo
reefman
key largo
Blue Sparkle
Contributor
A couple of thoughts:
1) I will have to look in my dive log to be sure, but I think Crocker Reef is (the one and only) reef in the Keys that I've done as a drift dive. That said, I don't know that it would always be dived that way.
2) Right now in the Keys the water should be over 80º. If it were me (and I'm a chilly type), I would be wearing a dive skin only. I have seen some people wearing 3mm suits there in summer. But with either of those "outfits," I think (?) it would be reasonably easy to swim up to the surface even with no air in my BC and all my weight on, especially since and empty tank (say, typical AL80) would be about 6# "light" (lighter than the start of the dive). That makes me think that either there is something we don't know (health problem that was not mentioned, say), or that they were really overweighted (?) Or am I off on this?
Blue Sparkle
1) I will have to look in my dive log to be sure, but I think Crocker Reef is (the one and only) reef in the Keys that I've done as a drift dive. That said, I don't know that it would always be dived that way.
2) Right now in the Keys the water should be over 80º. If it were me (and I'm a chilly type), I would be wearing a dive skin only. I have seen some people wearing 3mm suits there in summer. But with either of those "outfits," I think (?) it would be reasonably easy to swim up to the surface even with no air in my BC and all my weight on, especially since and empty tank (say, typical AL80) would be about 6# "light" (lighter than the start of the dive). That makes me think that either there is something we don't know (health problem that was not mentioned, say), or that they were really overweighted (?) Or am I off on this?
Blue Sparkle
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You would hope so, but assuming so would be a reach. We don't even know if all of the divers were certified, and I have known of private vessel group diving in which a uncertified swimmer is given a kit with the assurances that the more experienced will oversee needs.
There are other possibilities perhaps and this is my speculation, but my armchair view seems to suggest...
The OOA diver did not know how to dump his integrated weights, after having his kit set up by someone else perhaps, and did not test dump or drill;
The OOA diver did not test inflate his BC before the dive, and the inflator hose might have come unhooked on the tank change;
The OOA diver was overweighted on the first dive but compensated by adding air to his BC, but on the second dive used his air up quickly fighting to not sink when he could not inflate;
There was not a thorough predive buddy check covering BC air and weight dumping;
And none of the three divers thought to dump the kit on air sharing when other efforts failed.
The OOA diver did not test inflate his BC before the dive, and the inflator hose might have come unhooked on the tank change;
The OOA diver was overweighted on the first dive but compensated by adding air to his BC, but on the second dive used his air up quickly fighting to not sink when he could not inflate;
There was not a thorough predive buddy check covering BC air and weight dumping;
And none of the three divers thought to dump the kit on air sharing when other efforts failed.
That might not be an accurate appraisal, but those are the education reminders I am taking from this thread - and many a time I have not checked my buddy's inflator and weight dumping before a dive, I admit.
Exactly how the second rescuer drowned when the OOA diver could not be saved is certainly unknown? Did the rescuer refuse to give up too long, or the OOA diver refuse to release - no way to know.
This is WRONG on so many counts! 
Couldn't get the weights out.
Didn't shed the BC to go for the surface.
Apparently didn't orally inflate the BC.
Out of three divers, no one could figure out how to the above. ****!
Couldn't get the weights out.
Didn't shed the BC to go for the surface.
Apparently didn't orally inflate the BC.
Out of three divers, no one could figure out how to the above. ****!
melanie.
Contributor
Ok the way I am reading this - one diver out of air and sharing off the buddy. The Buddy with air can't inflate BCD or ditch weights.
Now assuming for some reason they can't swim up their kits (or just got so lost in the moment forget to start kicking), there is still a guy that has ditchable weights and a working BC! Manually inflate the OOA BC and ditch their weights. Hold on tight and I would think that would be enough to get both to the surface, or at least lighten the load enough to kick up
Now assuming for some reason they can't swim up their kits (or just got so lost in the moment forget to start kicking), there is still a guy that has ditchable weights and a working BC! Manually inflate the OOA BC and ditch their weights. Hold on tight and I would think that would be enough to get both to the surface, or at least lighten the load enough to kick up
Its very hard to get a handle on this whole situation because IMO too many things are unknown.
Several members already mentioned a lot of things that could have, and should have, been done; and also things that may or may not have been done.
To me it is confusing why if ONE of the divers was having air issues, why, like already mentioned, they did NOT dump weight; why they did NOT orally inflate [if they were sharing air from the OTHER buddy that DID have air]; why if the weights were stuck they did NOT just dump the whole rig and surface with buddy and alternate air; why they didnt become MORE buoyant with NO AIR in the tank AND a wetsuit on to at least assist in rising; and how in earth did the BUDDY expire as well?
TOO MANY questions for sure.
But a REALLT SAD event in a situation that I BELIEVE could have been avoided [or at least handled better if unavoidable].
Just reaffirms how IMPORTANT it is to:
- always KNOW your gear and be comfortable with ALL aspects of it [including ditching - weights AND entire kit if needed and necessary]
- always know your BUDDY your diving with [if you dont then thats OK, simply make sure you go over safety issues BEFORE hitting the water]
- always know where you are diving
- always dive WITHIN your limits and your TRAINING
I can go on and on and on, but I wont; I think you all get the idea.
Safe Diving ALL
USVet
Several members already mentioned a lot of things that could have, and should have, been done; and also things that may or may not have been done.
To me it is confusing why if ONE of the divers was having air issues, why, like already mentioned, they did NOT dump weight; why they did NOT orally inflate [if they were sharing air from the OTHER buddy that DID have air]; why if the weights were stuck they did NOT just dump the whole rig and surface with buddy and alternate air; why they didnt become MORE buoyant with NO AIR in the tank AND a wetsuit on to at least assist in rising; and how in earth did the BUDDY expire as well?
TOO MANY questions for sure.
But a REALLT SAD event in a situation that I BELIEVE could have been avoided [or at least handled better if unavoidable].
Just reaffirms how IMPORTANT it is to:
- always KNOW your gear and be comfortable with ALL aspects of it [including ditching - weights AND entire kit if needed and necessary]
- always know your BUDDY your diving with [if you dont then thats OK, simply make sure you go over safety issues BEFORE hitting the water]
- always know where you are diving
- always dive WITHIN your limits and your TRAINING
I can go on and on and on, but I wont; I think you all get the idea.
Safe Diving ALL
USVet
If the stories can be taken as fact (remember, they have a witness to the events) I have got to question the experience of the OOA diver. If indeed his tank was empty, he should have been ~ 6 # less negative, He could not release his weights? If he was overweighted, how did he end up without enough gas in his BC to keep him neutral? If he was neutral when he went OOG, he should have easily made the swim. (There is no mention of a BC failure.)
Sounds like to me an uncertified diver who was loaded down with weights by his friends to assure an easy descent. Unfamiliar with gear, procedures, use of BCD and going OOG! Then the buddy teams unable to sort it out.
I am just speculating, I said "sound like to me".
Sounds like to me an uncertified diver who was loaded down with weights by his friends to assure an easy descent. Unfamiliar with gear, procedures, use of BCD and going OOG! Then the buddy teams unable to sort it out.
I am just speculating, I said "sound like to me".
Hatul
Contributor
This definitely sounds like operator error on several counts.
I also believe the tank pressure should be displayed near the computer, so when you glance at the depth you also see your tank pressure. In other words the equipment should strive to be idiot proof. Sure tech divers clip off the SPG away from the depth gauge, but tech divers are disciplined, experienced and better trained and don't forget to check the gas supply.
In terms of weight integrated systems I like the Zeagle rip-cord. It's pretty foolproof--just pull the red handle and even if it fails you can just open the weight pockets and dump the weights manually.
Adam
I also believe the tank pressure should be displayed near the computer, so when you glance at the depth you also see your tank pressure. In other words the equipment should strive to be idiot proof. Sure tech divers clip off the SPG away from the depth gauge, but tech divers are disciplined, experienced and better trained and don't forget to check the gas supply.
In terms of weight integrated systems I like the Zeagle rip-cord. It's pretty foolproof--just pull the red handle and even if it fails you can just open the weight pockets and dump the weights manually.
Adam
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