2 dives 88, 95 feet no safety stop

[String]

Dont think thats needed. A lack of bouyancy control, possibly improper weighting and an inability to plan a dive and follow a simple plan is more basic than a DIR or other course. Its really open water level with any agency. Its something that any agency instructor on any course should be able to teach and remedy with a student as all the skills are absolutely vital basic ideas. It doesnt need a special instructor or a hardcore course to do this.

 

[lamont]

you need to find a buddy or instructor that wants to help you practice this, and just spend a tank fill or two repeatedly going down to 30-40 fsw and going up a line and practicing keeping it under control. get neutral on the bottom, use your lungs to start going up, and try to stop roughly every 10 fsw. don't hold onto the line, but just use it as a visual reference.

you also need to be able to execute this skill in blue water with no line to follow as well since sooner or later a situation will arise where you'll need to be able to do that.

 

[Ms Jane]

Hey there Crazy Bob... Been there, done that. Mine experience was somewhat more challenging, however, in that about 12 years ago I did a rocket ascent from 75 feet in Lake Tahoe. Not good--particularly in that, at that altitude, you start OUT as a "J" diver before you even hit the beach. Anyway, after that, I got serious about learning boyancy control.

This is what I learned over my fourteen-year dive experiences (ranging from some pretty rough Pacific waters to extremely tricking drift dives in Cozumel):

Talk to the dive masters. Ask them before you get in the water what the currents are, water temp, salinity--anything that would impact your diving. For example, the Sea of Cortez where I have done a ton of diving is saltier than the Pacific. So, I wear more weight. Is the current kicking up? More weight...

"Pack Your Own Parachute". Skydiver's term but it speaks for itself, meaning use your own equipment. Get to know how it works and impacts you. I don't rent equipment--ever. That's because I don't have to guess how everything is going work and feel down there; I already know.

Use your lungs. For me, it is my most valuable piece of "equipment". I use them to make even the tiniest adjustments in my boyancy during my dives. If I'd been in your situation I'd have felt the ascent early on and "dumped" my lungs till I could catch some weight... then ascended slowly with some shallow breathing. If I was still feeling light, I'd have added weight on the next dive, or, if the dive guide was around, snag him or her for some weight--I don't know a dive master that doesn't carry it.

One more piece of advice in this long and somewhat maternal diatribe: Get the heck away from descent lines. They screw you up and you will never learn to dive well if you depend on them for keeping you stable. Unless it's critical due to conditions or a group dive plan, I don't use them. I force myself to do my own ascents and descents so that I continue to hone my skills.

Good luck!

I recently completed to dives in West Palm Beach. This was my first dive w/out a line to hold going down and up. First dives Aruba no current. Anyway besides getting sick on the way to the spot (seasick). I completed my first dive 88 feet in 24 mins and started my ascent as I watched my computer go into the too fast ascent zone before i knew it I had surfaced. I asked the Cap't if I would be ok he said I wasn't down long enough. I felt fine other than seasickness again. The surface interval was 1 hr 14 mins, the next dive began and at some point I was down to 95 feet, started my ascent after 27 mins and being mindful of my first no safety stop ascent tried to make sure I had one at 15 feet. Unfortunately again I hit the surface my computer again was in the red for ascending too fast. Anyway I boarded and was seasick for the rest of the ride back to the dock. Fortunately I am fine and besides having a sore stomach "dry heaving from not eating anything" I am ok.
My first question is how do you stop yourself from surfaceing without a safety, and not having anything to hold on to. Second had I been down longer could I have had a more "severe" problem. Finally has anyone else eperienced this. I dont think this is something you can practice in a pool, but how do you "practice" or is it better for me to avoid this type of diving?????

I want to make it clear, this was all me nothing to do with the dive op.
They were great and made me feel as comfortable as possible.

 

[BigJetDriver]

CrazyBobC,

You've gotten some very good advice here, particularly from "String" and "PugetDiver", but the others are on the mark as well.

To your credit, you have acknowledged the problem, and seem willing to do the work to practice!

Good on ya'!!!!

 

[Kriterian]

you need to find a buddy or instructor that wants to help you practice this, and just spend a tank fill or two repeatedly going down to 30-40 fsw and going up a line and practicing keeping it under control. get neutral on the bottom, use your lungs to start going up, and try to stop roughly every 10 fsw. don't hold onto the line, but just use it as a visual reference.

you also need to be able to execute this skill in blue water with no line to follow as well since sooner or later a situation will arise where you'll need to be able to do that.

That's not a bad idea for a practice session at my quarry. Is there any dangers to this sort of up and down bouncing, or will sticking to 30-40 feet make it safer?

 

[String]

Generally doing it a lot is not a good idea, the last 30ft are where there biggest buoyancy changes are so good practice BUT its where greatest expansion occurs. Id be worried about bubble and/or microbubble formation doing this too often. Saw-tooth profiles are a big factor in DCI risk. On a personal note ive done 2-3 bounces like this with a student and my main issue is even though clearing is ok it hurts my ears after a while.

The best way maybe to swim around in 20ft water to practice 5ft or so depth changes without incident then on real dives use an experienced instructor or buddy and YOU control the ascent rate (ie they stay level with you not the other way around) but can act to slow you if its wrong. The first few times maybe good to have them control the ascent you get the the hang of how to dump and when.

 

[lamont]

if you're not good with neutral buoyancy at all, just practicing staying neutral at 10-20 fsw would probably be better. you want to get to the point where can stay in control throughout an entire dive at those depths, without touching the bottom and without having any +/- 5 fsw buoyancy swings. it can get tricky at the end of a dive to 20 fsw when your tank starts to empty and if you don't notice that you're getting light and dump you can find yourself heading to the surface. on the other hand, just staying at 20 fsw and breathing your tank down and feeling yourself starting to get gradually lighter can really help you understand how it feels to be 'light' or 'heavy' which is critical feedback to being able to understand buoyancy.

when you start feeling better about your general buoyancy control, then you can start trying to do ascent drills. ascent drills are going to expose you to a little more DCS and AGE risk, so try to use your head about what you're doing. even though you're staying shallow you're going to be shaking up bubbles a bit, so nitrox will help. only get deeper as you get more control over your ascents (start out at 20 fsw just going to a stop at 10, then go deeper to 30, 40, etc). try to do at least 1 min @ 30,20,10 as you ascend. if you lose it, remember to breathe out on the way up. if you pop to the surface hard, consider taking a 60-90 min SI (or 24h SI) to let the bubbles clear out a bit.

there's some risk in training excersizes like this, but there's less risk doing this than there is shooting to the surface from 90 fsw without a stop.

 

[lamont]

On a personal note ive done 2-3 bounces like this with a student and my main issue is even though clearing is ok it hurts my ears after a while.

yeah, after 3 ascent drills my sinuses and ears are pretty tenderized. thats a good indicator to stop...

 

[pasley]

You have received some great advice. Let me see if I can summarize. Buoyancy and proper weighting are the first steps.

Once the air in you BC has expanded to the point that you ascent rate is exceeding 30 feet per minute, you have lost control. It is difficult to dump enough air fast enough to regain that control.

Everyone has their own technique. There are essentially Two distinctly different techniques for free ascents plus a combination technique:
1. Dump air on a periodic basis as you ascend staying just ahead of the expansion in the BC. This is very hard to do.
2. Dump 100% of the air out of the BC BEFORE you start your assent. This of course assumes you are able to kick up the weight you are carrying. This is what I do. Then I control my depth on the way up with by fining up slowly and breathing in with an emphasis on the exhale. If I stop fining I quickly lose momentum and slow down and stop. As I hit 30, 20 and 15 and 10 I check my purge valve to ensure no small bubble has expanded. If I am going up to fast, hard exhale, exhale, exhale and stop fining. If necessary, put fins over head and fin downward (almost never happens). But by having all the air out of the BC I am in more control and not trying to get ahead of the expanding air.
3. Some will merge the two, leaving a small amount of air and periodically hitting the purge valve to stay as close to neutral as possible until they hit 60feet or so and then dump it all.

If you find yourself coming up to fast hit the big dump valves and flare out turning your body parallel to the surface to present more drag or even flipping over and fining towards the bottom to slow your assent all the while pulling on your highest dump valve (the one closest to the surface).

Which of the above is best? Why the one that works for you of course. There may actually be more ways to do a free ascent, but I believe they would all be variations of the above.

Naturally swimming back to the anchor line is the preferred meathod. Don't forget to watch your ascent rate while going up the line too. I have seen many a dive forget about this and be going up the anchor line way too fast.

Personally I think stopping at 60 feet and taking stock is a good idea for a few seconds. So you should be at least slightly negative when you hit 60 feet (that gives you between 30-60 feet to get there) and stay that way the rest of the way up. If you cant stop there, you already have a problem but at least you have 30 feet to work on it. When you hit 15, it is easy to add just enough to get netural (empty BC is just about right for me at 15 feet).

 

[Hank49]

Generally doing it a lot is not a good idea, the last 30ft are where there biggest buoyancy changes are so good practice BUT its where greatest expansion occurs. Id be worried about bubble and/or microbubble formation doing this too often. Saw-tooth profiles are a big factor in DCI risk. On a personal note ive done 2-3 bounces like this with a student and my main issue is even though clearing is ok it hurts my ears after a while.

I seem to remember reading or hearing back in the late 90s, that Australian PADI instructors did not have to perform the CESA during an OW course because there were cases of DCS associated with multiple ascents and decents in classes with lots of students.