2 dives 88, 95 feet no safety stop

[CRAZYBOBC]

I recently completed to dives in West Palm Beach. This was my first dive w/out a line to hold going down and up. First dives Aruba no current. Anyway besides getting sick on the way to the spot (seasick). I completed my first dive 88 feet in 24 mins and started my ascent as I watched my computer go into the too fast ascent zone before i knew it I had surfaced. I asked the Cap't if I would be ok he said I wasn't down long enough. I felt fine other than seasickness again. The surface interval was 1 hr 14 mins, the next dive began and at some point I was down to 95 feet, started my ascent after 27 mins and being mindful of my first no safety stop ascent tried to make sure I had one at 15 feet. Unfortunately again I hit the surface my computer again was in the red for ascending too fast. Anyway I boarded and was seasick for the rest of the ride back to the dock. Fortunately I am fine and besides having a sore stomach "dry heaving from not eating anything" I am ok.
My first question is how do you stop yourself from surfaceing without a safety, and not having anything to hold on to. Second had I been down longer could I have had a more "severe" problem. Finally has anyone else eperienced this. I dont think this is something you can practice in a pool, but how do you "practice" or is it better for me to avoid this type of diving?????

I want to make it clear, this was all me nothing to do with the dive op.
They were great and made me feel as comfortable as possible.

 

[String]

Thats 100% to do with practicing buoyancy control. Being able to alter ascent/descent rates and stop in the water column at a certain depth are vital basic skills.

You shouldnt ever rely on something to hold onto. During ascent look at your gauges or computer to get your ascent rate, as you notice it start to speed up start dumping air.

You can practice in a pool but its better to practice in water abour 30ft deep, practice changing depth by 10ft, stopping etc.
Brutally from reading the above it looks as if vital basic skills were missing and need to be revisited before diving to anything like that depth.

Assuming its a square profile dive on my tables 24 mins is the maximum no stop time for 88ft and that assume a no greater than 15m/min (50ft/min) absolute maximum ascent rate. Faster than that you violate the schedule so are pretty close to the line. Going by that id have said the second dive was not an option for safety reasons.

After that SI and the second dive, again assuming square profile that dive is a mandatory decompression dive even ignoring the first dive. If you take into account the surface interval that depth isnt an option at all - its not possible to even plot on the tables and thats forgetting the rapid ascent (thats assuming a normal ascent from previous dives). In other words you are so far off the tables the dive is impossible to plan, well into "could get bent" territory.

A few questions, why were you asking the captain if it was ok to dive again ? Why werent you planning it yourself with your tables to work out what was/wasnt possible ?
Those dives probably werent square profile but the fact remains you were very lucky to get away with that sort of profile and definately need to revisit tables, dive planning and practice buoyancy control.
Sorry if this sounds condescending but thats a very dangerous series of dive profiles outlined above.

 

[mstroeck]

Hi CRAZYBOBC,

Thanks for sharing, I am glad that you are well. Is it possible that you were underweighted? Were you dumping air but still ascending too fast?

SCUBA tanks are lighter at the end of a dive because of the air you use at depth. Additionally, your suit (were you wearing neoprene?) expands as you come near the surface again. If you are not weighted sufficiently, that results in an express ride to the surface. Somebody who is extremely underweighted may find it impossible to maintain a stop at 15 feet with nearly empty tanks.

 

[CRAZYBOBC]

Hi CRAZYBOBC,

Thanks for sharing, I am glad that you are well. Is it possible that you were underweighted? Were you dumping air but still ascending too fast?

SCUBA tanks are lighter at the end of a dive because of the air you use at depth. Additionally, your suit (were you wearing neoprene?) expands as you come near the surface again. If you are not weighted sufficiently, that results in an express ride to the surface. Somebody who is extremely underweighted may find it impossible to maintain a stop at 15 feet with nearly empty tanks.

I had a 3m full suit, and 16lbs of weight. I figured it was my poor skills and will practice safely in a rock quarry to get my bouancy skills better. I was looking for honest opinions, btw had i not dived i would have just been dry heaving on the boat while i waited, my only releuf came from diving.
Any other opinions/advice is greatly appreciated

 

[PugetDiver]

Crazy,

Just to add to the above, Don't use your inflator as an elevator. Try being slightly Negative at the 15' safety stop and kicking to stay there (kick up from 95 feet instead of inflating your BC). Remember you were down at 95 feet, you needed to put quite a bit of air in your BC to get that "elevator" effect. Then when you ascended to your 15' safety stop, you ended up shooting to the surface (Natural BC Bladder expansion)

 

[String]

16lbs of weight in a 3mm suit could be part of the problem - overweighting. More air expanding on ascent resulting in a runaway rate.

 

[JustDiveIt]

Hello Bob.

Free ascents are difficult under any circumstances. Then enter current, surge, vis, etc. these factors only add to the degree of difficulty. What you have experienced is not out of the ordinary but there are things one can do to prepare themselves in completing free ascents successfully and decrease health risks. Personally I practice free ascents (often) in a controlled environment ie a quarry. Secondly, on deep dives I incorporate safety stops at 80', 50', 30' all near or below that first atmosphere for better and easier buoyancy control. From 30' I begin my ascent slowly but as I near the 20' mark I make myself negatively buoyant and slowly fin my way to the surface therefore controlling my ascent and avoiding "popping" to the surface. I have used this method for years and have had many dive buddies utilize this same approach. Hope this helps.

 

[firechuk]

I see several things that make me ask questions in this situation. (1) 3mm full suit, 16 lbs of weight and probably an aluminum tank in salt water. You didn't say what you weigh, but it just doesn't seem like sufficient weight to me. (2) Based on the info you provide, I agree with String - you should never have made the second dive. If you were working your tables, or even letting the computer decide if you could make the next profile you described, it shouldn't have happened. Seasick or not, it's better than DCS, which would fall into the more "severe" situation you could have encountered. (3) You don't mention a dive buddy - I wonder what his/her take was on your actions? We always teach/preach that you are ultimately resonsible for yourself, but in this case you could have seriously endangered another diver who may have followed your profile. (4) You say that the dive operator was not at fault. If you were asking his permission or blessing to dive again, why didn't he (or the DM if the captain wasn't filling both roles) suggest more weight, shortening the next profile, adding to the surface interval or suggest that you stay out of the water for the next dive?

I'm not out to bust anyone's butt - we will all make mistakes (if we haven't already) and hopefully will learn from them. It sounds like you are on the right track - practice, practice, practice. There are dive specialties that focus on bouyancy control. Check them out. Consider yourself lucky, keep diving, keep learning, and stay safe!

 

[mstroeck]

Bob,

I agree with String, with that setup you also might have been overweighted. But that also depends on other factors such as your weight, the type of tank you were using (steel, aluminum), other gear you were carrying, etc.

Just to make sure you understand the point he made:

When you are overweighted, you need too much air to keep you neutrally bouyant. Going up from 40 meters to 30 meters (for example), that is not too much of a problem, as the air in your BCD will only expand by 25%.

But going up from 20 meters to 10 meters, the ambient pressure is cut in half, which means the volume of air will double. If you already have a lot of air in your jacket/wing because of being overweighted, you might pop the surface before you know what's happening.

 

[eelpout]

Here come the flame throwers!!!

I think you are a perfect candiate for a DIR F course. They will teach you bouynacy skills and evaluate you, and point out what you have to improve. The biggest problem with practice, is "what to practice? ". Then you have the problem if you are doing it correctly.

Continuing education is part of the learning process in any activity.