2-28-07 Vortex Dive Report

[DawgDiver]

This is my two cents of advice. If you are not cave certified you really have no business entering the lower cavern. It is a tight entry in and defintely a cave dive by all definitions. Get the correct training and experience before entering. Many people ignore the warnings and enter the cavern without proper training, knowledge and gear. People have died at Morrison and other Florida caves by ignoring the warnings and feeling that they were supermen or superwomen. Your an adult and obviously you can make your own decisions, like I said...just my two cents worth of advice.

Cave certified to do the cavern at morrison??? C'mon man, i agree newer divers shouldn't try it, but nobody needs stage bottles, line markers and fancy high-dollar equipment to do morrison. There's not even any silt in the cavern to stir up and make it low viz. Anyone with some experience and a good buddy can do it. And a cave diver would hardly waste his time diving at morrison.

 

[Fish_Whisperer]

Cave certified to do the cavern at morrison??? C'mon man, i agree newer divers shouldn't try it, but nobody needs stage bottles, line markers and fancy high-dollar equipment to do morrison. There's not even any silt in the cavern to stir up and make it low viz. Anyone with some experience and a good buddy can do it. And a cave diver would hardly waste his time diving at morrison.

Dawg, I made the mistake once, of relating that I'd followed my instructor into the cave at Vortex Spring, which is straight in, straight out, max depth being 110', with the REAL cave being locked by a door, and the key only available from the dive shop. I basically got my azz handed to me, here. You're wasting your breath. :shakehead

 

[utdivermatt]

Cave certified to do the cavern at morrison??? C'mon man, i agree newer divers shouldn't try it, but nobody needs stage bottles, line markers and fancy high-dollar equipment to do morrison. There's not even any silt in the cavern to stir up and make it low viz. Anyone with some experience and a good buddy can do it. And a cave diver would hardly waste his time diving at morrison.

Not all cave diving includes 'stage bottle, line markers, and fancy high-dollar equipment.' Alot of it is simply being able to manage a situation when everything goes wrong. Looking at the map Mike posted (which looks like Shecks), it definately is a pretty intensive cavern, considering both depth and overhead enviroment. People have died at morrison if I recall, and probably by diving with an attitude like that.

 

[DawgDiver]

It's not that intensive. It's just a big room basically. You pretty much have to use a shovel to get below 90'. I'm not trying to say that everyone can and should do it, i just don't think full cave certification is necessary. But what do i know.... it's amazing i'm still alive after being in that cavern.

 

[utdivermatt]

It's not that intensive. It's just a big room basically. You pretty much have to use a shovel to get below 90'. I'm not trying to say that everyone can and should do it, i just don't think full cave certification is necessary. But what do i know.... it's amazing i'm still alive after being in that cavern.

First off, full cave certification was never referenced. Simply a cavern class would explain alot that would help in this situation.

Its not intensive eh? Im going to supose you dive it with a standard Aluminum 80, right? So we are talking down about 90 feet, so pushing 4 atmospheres of pressure. So suppose your SAC is around .6 (bump it up a little due to being in an overhead enviroment), that means you are downing 2.4 cubic feet of air a minute (still a rather generous SAC). Seeing as you should be observing the 1/3rd rule (maybe you dont consider this important too), you should be leaving with your air around 8-10 minutes into the dive. Judging by the map, it goes what... 60 feet in laterally? So suppose you turn around at the last moment your pressure allows, and you are near the back of the cavern.... your buddy goes out of air. Your sac jumps... we will be generous and give you a SAC of 1, and your buddy 1.5. That means you are gulping down 10 cubic feet a minute. Whoa! You have about 5 minutes of air at that point, and you didnt run a line. Not to mention fitting through the opening to the cavern. Do you really want to be in that situation?

 

[mike_s]

Dawg, I made the mistake once, of relating that I'd followed my instructor into the cave at Vortex Spring, which is straight in, straight out, max depth being 110', with the REAL cave being locked by a door, and the key only available from the dive shop. I basically got my azz handed to me, here. You're wasting your breath. :shakehead

Frank. I remember that post.


While you might have got an ear/eye full, folks weren't dogging you on that, but your instructor.

An instructor should have never taken you somewhere that you weren't trained for (unless you were doing it as part of the class). That's what they were saying.... That and he didn't even brief you (as a dive buddy) about doing it before he 'led' you in there. In theory, an instructor should be held higher accountable to his dive actions in 'leading' people anywhere. He's definately more liable to be sued as opposed to a regular diver.

At Vortex, the gate is something like 300' from the surface (linear measurement). that's way beyond considered a cavern also. (which I think the definition is 130' or soemthing linear).

he just did something stupid and since he wasn't there to dog on, people just related the 'advice' to you.

If I remember right, you got sick from the air fill at vortex on that dive. Being that far back w/o redundant air/regs could have been a bad thing. Luckily you're Ok.

 

[Fish_Whisperer]

Yep. I understand, Mike. And I appreciated the advice, but the tone of much of it was what I didn't care for. There's a such thing as advice, and then there's a such thing as just running it into the ground and belaboring a point far beyond what is necessary.

As for the the air, I related the problem with it to Erica, at the dive shop. She appreciated it and I'm sure they had someone look into the state of their compressor filters.

 

[GulfDiver77]

I didn't go all the way in I went to the sign and turned around .It may not technicaly be a "cavern" but for a lack of a better word that is what I call it.

Oh ok....I see LOL How did a Vortex report turn into a morrison debate?LOL

 

[DawgDiver]

Whoa! You have about 5 minutes of air at that point, and you didnt run a line. Not to mention fitting through the opening to the cavern. Do you really want to be in that situation?

Maybe if you had actually been to morrison you would know that running a line would be pointless.

But i'm done discussing it... everyone's got their own opinions.

 

[wjefferis]

The Grotto at Vortex is very safe the opening is extremely wide and even the experts didn't put the signat the entrance to the Grotto they placed it in the very back before the actual cave system starts. Morrison on the other hand has the cave warning sign posted well before the the entrance to the lower restriction entrance.

I didn't mean to step on anyones toes with my earlier post. I just feel that it should be known that entering that area should really be done cave/tech divers only IMO. Many people have entered that cavern without incident, some have not been as lucky. Without proper training and equipment you can easily run into trouble. One day while I was at Morrison I saw a cave diver getting out of the water shaking his head I asked him what was up. He said that he had to help one diver who was key-holed in the restrction and another had some problem while in the cave itself. He said he was leaving before he had to do a full-on rescue. I saw him take of his gear, get in his car, and leave without further delay. I have never entered that restriction at Morrison and never plan to. There is plenty of other cool things to see there anyway.