1st stage of regulator failed in close position - new diver freaking out a bit :)

[CuzzA]

FYI, Came across this scenario described in the forums. Sounds like what happened to me...

I hope this information is useful to someone. 25 dives after a complete rebuild service for my Aqualung Legend LX I had my first stage fail shut at 60 feet 40 minutes into the dive. Fortunately my buddy recognized the international signal for out of air - eyes as wide as saucers - and he had his reg in my mouth ASAP. I had 1500 lbs left in the tank (although the gauge fell to zero until we got back to the boat). Took the regulator to a different Aqualung authorized service dive shop for analysis/repair and the issue was determined to be the ACD. From the dive shop - "We found that the ACD inner post valve and yoke nut had come loose." The regulator was rebuilt as listed on the intake documents and theses parts have been torqued to their proper specifications". So, holy cow - a bad service can result in a failed shut condition on the first stage with no prior indication that things are going south. Caveat Emptor.

So if not a quick kick to buddy: pull the weights and head up? Or is it just head up kicking and trying to exhale? Again, depth is at 25m starting in exhaled state? Are these viable options, or not? I seem to get conflicting answers from the dive guides.

You don't have to exhale, you have to keep your airway open. Remember your open water training?

A controlled emergency swimming ascent is "controlled". Start kicking up while making the "ahh" sound and dump gas from your BC to control your ascent rate. This is fine for a relatively shallow emergency ascent, IMO.

Then there's the buoyant emergency swimming ascent. Ditch ballast, start kicking up while making the "ahh" sound and you'll find yourself on the surface pretty quick. I would consider this option if I were deep and didn't think I could make it to the surface in a controlled fashion.

In either case I think the key is to try and keep calm so you can make good decisions. Or use a pony bottle and plop a reg in your mouth and head up.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

swimming 75 feet in a neutral condition, while wearing a BC that is holding expanding air on ascent (and aiding you the closer you get to the surface) and doing all this with a full or nearly full set of lungs is not going to be that difficult.

Being faced with empty lungs after several (failed) inhalation attempts and then having more time possibly wasted looking for a buddy, before you start kicking for the surface in a somewhat negative condition, while scared out of your mind is a very, very different situation.

I can not emphasize enough the difference between doing breath hold activities with empty lungs versus full lungs- for me anyway.

For me, I would be dropping my weightbelt if I had one. If on that day, I felt my super power abilities were strong, I might take off the belt while swimming and hold it in my hand in preparation for dropping it.

I know one person who took a few breaths off his BC in an emergency ascent, but I have to believe that it is very unlikely a person in a near panic mode could do this. In general, it is probably better to keep the regulator in your mouth and hope you get some additional air, swim as calmly and as efficiently as possible and drop lead as well.

Chances are this will never happen to me, because I carry a pony bottle and this sort of failure would be a trivial occurrence.

You don't need to buy the most expensive regulator, in fact a cheaper, simpler one may actually be safer and less prone to failure, especially after being serviced by some technicians (who we so often hear about making mistakes while servicing). To make this a non-event you need a few hundred dollars, a small pony bottle, a cheap simple regulator and a pressure gage.

If you suddenly got zero air, it was not an issue with turning the tank valve on incompletely, because the effects will be much more gradual and will progressively resolve on ascent. There is a slight possibility that you might totally freak out and become irrational and assume the regulator has stopped working when you feel resistance, but the pressure gauge will return to full pressure between inhalations, so that sounds extremely unlikely.

If the people who rented the gear did not immediately open up the tank when returning to the shop and show you what they found, there is probably a very good reason for that - because they already know that a problem with the tank itself is the most likely cause. and of course, if this is the case, the most expensive regulator in the word aint gonna help.

 

[tursiops]

FYI, Came across this scenario described in the forums. Sounds like what happened to me...

I hope this information is useful to someone. 25 dives after a complete rebuild service for my Aqualung Legend LX I had my first stage fail shut at 60 feet 40 minutes into the dive. Fortunately my buddy recognized the international signal for out of air - eyes as wide as saucers - and he had his reg in my mouth ASAP. I had 1500 lbs left in the tank (although the gauge fell to zero until we got back to the boat). Took the regulator to a different Aqualung authorized service dive shop for analysis/repair and the issue was determined to be the ACD. From the dive shop - "We found that the ACD inner post valve and yoke nut had come loose." The regulator was rebuilt as listed on the intake documents and theses parts have been torqued to their proper specifications". So, holy cow - a bad service can result in a failed shut condition on the first stage with no prior indication that things are going south. Caveat Emptor.

So if not a quick kick to buddy: pull the weights and head up? Or is it just head up kicking and trying to exhale? Again, depth is at 25m starting in exhaled state? Are these viable options, or not? I seem to get conflicting answers from the dive guides.

That previous post you quote from was a long thread (Aqualung Legend LX First Stage Failure at depth) but it's worth reading the whole thing.

You really want to dump your weights only if you have to, to get to the surface. No weights = you are a cork, with no speed control. If you are properly weighted, you can easily kick to the surface. Also consider only dropping some of your weight, not all of it. The goal is to get to the surface, however, WITHOUT holding your breathe. Scream if you have to, say "Oh F***" all the way up, whatever will keep your lungs able to dump air. By the way, high-pitched screaming uses less air than low-pitched screaming. Yes, CESA is tough with no air. Panic is even harder with no air. Breath from your BCD if you must....and then see a lung doctor immediately; that is the foulest, most microb-contaminated air you'll ever get.

You are looking for a rule. The rule is to find air....buddy is first choice, surface is second, BCD is last. And keep your something in your mouth, the reg or the BCD mouthpiece.

Best rule? Carry a redundant gas supply...it is ALWAYS closer than your buddy.

 

[rhwestfall]

I like the @dumpsterDiver technique of screaming "sh*****************************t!" (cause that's what you are thinking anyways).

 

[dumpsterDiver]

Dropping a few lbs of lead is not going to result in "being a cork and unable to control your ascent rate'. It is absolutely ridiculous to assume that someone who is ascending while "somewhat" buoyant can not control their ascent rate. It is simple, and I used to teach people how to perform, controlled buoyant ascents.. just lean back, flare out like a sky diver and the drag will slow you down a huge amount.

This skill of laying over on your back and spreading eagle and passively controlling ascent rate is a lot more natural and easier to perform, then trying to suck air from a BC bladder, while swimming upward.

And although i don't agree with the idea of sucking air from the BC bladder as a "good and viable choice" in an emergency, we used to see people suck air from their BC's thousands of times. Literally, often when drift diving, the direction was to "suck the air from your BC" while on the boat, so once you hit the water you are negative and can descend immediately.

That is one of the things I dislike about an air 2, you can't suck the air out of your BC if the tank is turned on.

 

[rhwestfall]

the reality is if you are becoming an uncontrollable missile by dropping weight you are either grossly over-weighted or possibly in a dry suit and heavy thermals (I frequently am the later and make it non-ditch-able for such reason)....

 

[halocline]

I intend to get right back into diving again but I am going to buy the most expensive regulator possible!

david

That's music to a dive shop's ears, but hardly an effective safety move. If anything, the most reliable regulators are the old simple designs like the scubapro MK2 or the USD conshelf. Regulator price tag and safety have nothing to do with each other. Don't let any slimy dive shop salesman tell you anything different. Or even a non-slimy one....

You should count your blessings; you can't buy this kind of training experience. Now you have a completely different perspective on the buddy system. This could serve you extremely well in the future. I'm glad you weren't injured.

 

[uncfnp]

And although i don't agree with the idea of sucking air from the BC bladder as a "good and viable choice" in an emergency, we used to see people suck air from their BC's thousands of times. Literally, often when drift diving, the direction was to "suck the air from your BC" while on the boat, so once you hit the water you are negative and can descend immediately.

This. I was taught to breathe the excess air from my BCD before a hot drop drift diving. It wasn't until SB that I heard of any hazard from this technique. Of course I have owned my own BCD from almost day one and maintain it well, including the wing bladder. I would not hesitant to breathe off it if needed.

But I agree with DD that for the average diver, especially in rental gear, its not the first choice and may just add to the task loading in an already high stress situation.

 

[tbone1004]

That's music to a dive shop's ears, but hardly an effective safety move. If anything, the most reliable regulators are the old simple designs like the scubapro MK2 or the USD conshelf. Regulator price tag and safety have nothing to do with each other. Don't let any slimy dive shop salesman tell you anything different. Or even a non-slimy one....

You should count your blessings; you can't buy this kind of training experience. Now you have a completely different perspective on the buddy system. This could serve you extremely well in the future. I'm glad you weren't injured.

that, all about that. This failure was 95% likely caused by the valve, not the regulator, if it was caused by the regulator, going to expensive regulators on the premise that they are better is stupid. This could have happened on any regulator on the market, and even if it was the first stage that failed *which based on the SPG going to 0, it probably wasn't*, the key there is keep your sh!t in good condition.

 

[KevinNM]

Your buddy was right where they should be. There is nothing I hate more than a "buddy" who spends the entire dive staring through the viewfinder of a camera while paying no attention to where you are. Macro photographers are the worst, they never ever look up.

Things break. This kind of failure is rare, but it sucks to be you if it does. A pony that you have trained with, know how to deploy and actually carry on every dive is the solution to that kind of failure.