11 y/o Surfaces with Convulsions

[Biotech Diver]

I'm not sure why we are "ruling anything out" with minimal information about this particular tragedy.

But for the purposes of general education, people should know what AGE is, how it can result in neurological injury and how it can be caused by shallow water ascent barotrauma. Also, "convulsions" is not a diagnosis, but a symptom that absolutely could be a sign of a neurological injury.

I get what you are saying and anything under the moon is a possibility, but it seems improbable to me that the convulsions were caused by something he did while diving. The depth was 20 feet deep but the kid was likely at least 3 feet off the bottom if not more, so his actual depth was likely not 20 feet. He obviously didn’t run out of bottom time. He obviously didn’t get oxygen toxicity unless he was diving with 100% oxygen, which is also extremely unlikely. Very doubtful he got DCS from diving at 17 feet. His whole dive is basically a safety stop, right?

 

[doctormike]

I get what you are saying and anything under the moon is a possibility, but it seems improbable to me that the convulsions were caused by something he did while diving. The depth was 20 feet deep but the kid was likely at least 3 feet off the bottom if not more, so his actual depth was likely not 20 feet. He obviously didn’t run out of bottom time. He obviously didn’t get oxygen toxicity unless he was diving with 100% oxygen, which is also extremely unlikely. Very doubtful he got DCS from diving at 17 feet. His whole dive is basically a safety stop, right?

Sorry, perhaps I should have explained more. I agree that DCS and oxygen toxicity are impossible in this situation.

If you ascend, even from moderate depth (this has happened in swimming pools) without opening the airway, you can get pulmonary barotrauma. This will result in torn blood vessels in an overpressurized space, and gas can be forced into the bloodstream. When that happens in vessels that are downstream from the capillaries in the lungs, gas enters the arterial circulation and can the bubbles can block blood circulation in whatever tissue they end up lodged in after leaving the heart (arterial gas embolism, or AGE). If this happens in the brain, it can cause neurological injury.

 

[DandyDon]

More details to follow.

That's rare really. And of course, there is never a tank air analysis report.

 

[Rae HalfTheHill]

That's rare really. And of course, there is never a tank air analysis report.

I'm following the CG investigation

 

[Biotech Diver]

Sorry, perhaps I should have explained more. I agree that DCS and oxygen toxicity are impossible in this situation.

If you ascend, even from moderate depth (this has happened in swimming pools) without opening the airway, you can get pulmonary barotrauma. This will result in torn blood vessels in an overpressurized space, and gas can be forced into the bloodstream. When that happens in vessels that are downstream from the capillaries in the lungs, gas enters the arterial circulation and can the bubbles can block blood circulation in whatever tissue they end up lodged in after leaving the heart (arterial gas embolism, or AGE). If this happens in the brain, it can cause neurological injury.

Thank you for your explanation. It’s still a lot of “ifs” but of course that is a possibility.

 

[FishWatcher747]

Delete

 

[Marie13]

I'm new to diving but I grew up diving to the bottom of swimming pools and I'm not aware anyone got hurt doing it. It's actually required in Life Guard training I believe. Where I live in the boonies people do crazy stuff like jump off cliffs into lakes and I'm sure you go down to at least 15 feet under the water. I've only jumped from 40 feet but others go much higher.

I'm calling shenanigans on AGE from 17 feet.

There was a case of a woman doing an OW class pool session at a Chicago area Y in the 90s. 4ft deep. She and her husband were practicing buddy breathing. Suddenly he wouldn’t give the reg back. She stood up suddenly and suffered an AGE. She was holding her breath. She had to go to the chamber. This incident was included by the respiratory therapist that runs the chamber at Lutheran General Hospital in Park Ridge, IL, as part of the educational program on the chamber he’s done for years.

 

[JohnN]

I'm new to diving but I grew up diving to the bottom of swimming pools and I'm not aware anyone got hurt doing it. It's actually required in Life Guard training I believe. Where I live in the boonies people do crazy stuff like jump off cliffs into lakes and I'm sure you go down to at least 15 feet under the water. I've only jumped from 40 feet but others go much higher.

I'm calling shenanigans on AGE from 17 feet.

Sigh. . . you obviously snoozed through your dive training.

When you surface swim to depth (or jump), the mass (not volume) of air in your lungs is constant.

When you're breathing from your tank, the mass of air in your lungs increases with depth. As you ascend, you need to release the excess air because it expands as the surrounding pressure decreases (your depth).

If you prefer a fancy name, have a look at Boyle's Law: Boyle's law - Wikipedia

 

[FishWatcher747]

I stand corrected.

 

[Dan]

I'm new to diving but I grew up diving to the bottom of swimming pools and I'm not aware anyone got hurt doing it. It's actually required in Life Guard training I believe. Where I live in the boonies people do crazy stuff like jump off cliffs into lakes and I'm sure you go down to at least 15 feet under the water. I've only jumped from 40 feet but others go much higher.

I'm calling shenanigans on AGE from 17 feet.

Jumping from a cliff into a lake is more like a free diving, where your lung will contract (shrink) under pressure and expand back to normal size as you surface. During SCUBA diving, your lung will be at normal size under pressure. If you are breath holding while ascending you’ll be over expanding your lung.