Boat diving.Do we have it all wrong?!

[broncobowsher]

A crew that is helpful gets better tips as well. If they are willing to be helpful and work, make life better for the diver, they get the green stuff with larger numbers on it.

 

[boulderjohn]

In addition to boarding the boat, a lot about tech diving from a boat can be very difficult without having anything to do with your fitness as a diver. IIRC, a diver in the UK died recently, and the suspected cause was a fall he suffered while trying to walk on the pitching deck prior to the dive. If I am fully kitted with steel doubles, just standing up from the bench can be a challenge. If the boat is really full, clipping on your deco bottles while you are shoulder to shoulder with other divers is loads of fun. I do appreciate help in those situations.

 

[tomcatbubba]

I've seen the exact opposite, especially in the Keys. I've seen more than a few captains get somewhat perturbed when one attempts to board the boat with stages or deco bottles..........

When I side mount, or have multiple stages or deco bottles, I sometimes use a down line attached to a small weight with rings placed along the line. Either the right side mount tank or the stages/deco bottles get clipped off and lowered for me to retrieve under water. Once I'm done, clip em back and its an easy climb back on the boat. The crew would, of course, need to OK this first........

 

[Gareth J]

When I started diving many moons ago, there where two methods of entry back into a boat.

For a RHIB (Ridged Hull Inflatable Boat). It was de-kit in the water and climb over the tubes to get back in the boat. Often it was the boat coxswain that pulled the kit back onboard, with a little help from the diver in the water.

Or

For a hard boat, it was climb the ladder. The larger dive boats where often converted trawlers, so had a freeboard of 6 - 10 feet. The original rule, was if you couldn't climb the ladder in a force 4, then you shouldn't be wearing the kit.

With the move to Nitrox, mixed gas, longer and deeper dives, our understanding and concern over work induced DCI pushed both divers and skippers to re-examine the 'climb the ladder in your kit' ethos.
Very few UK dive boats have ladders as the primary means of getting divers back on board. Even the larger liveaboards (converted trawlers) have lifts as the primary means of getting divers back on board.

One of the last large UK boat I was on that still used a ladder (some 15-20 years back), we where explicitly told NOT to climb the ladder with twins and stages. The freeboard was a good 6 foot or more. Stages where clipped off to a line and pulled back onboard, using a block and tackle. We had the choice of climbing the ladder in twins or de-kitting fully in the water. We actually had an issue with a diver after one of the deeper dives, he was de-kitted in the water before being assisted up the ladder - he was walking wounded (luckily). His twinset and stages where recovered using the block and tackle.

Having recovered a few divers over the years, in various states of consciousness. A lift is a far better solution than parbuckling or attempting to winch someone back on board. An unconscious individual is a heavy dead weight, without mechanical advantage, it can require 3 or 4 other individuals. Not to mention its not kind on the casualty and can leave them quite battered and bruised - especially parbuckling.

Most of the boats I use these days won't even let you walk back to the bench on exiting in full kit. Normal procedure is to exit the lift, hold the rail next to the lift and the skipper removes fins and helps you back to the bench. If you are carrying a stage, he removes this first.
Generally, I dive with a club. Our rule is once you are back on board, you help everyone else. Which takes some pressure off the skipper (makes us welcome return customers ).
I always release my bottom stage clips as I approach the lift, this way its easier and quicker for the skipper/diver to remove the stages, just the upper D-ring.

I appreciate that the USA has different legislation.
Lifts make diving safer and easier. Recovering a casualty is much easier, quicker and safer for all involved.
Even better if you are running trips for disabled divers.

Happy 4th July to all our American cousins.
(Condolences , you could have still had a Queen as head of state, and have got a decent cup of tea. )

 

[rjack321]

If a diver requires tons of assistance under normal circumstances what happens when the weather is terrible or conditions worsen while they are underwater?
I can exit myself without much help in good to moderate conditions, but its often exhausting and risky from a DCS and trip/fall perspective. There's a help and there's HELP. Every boat is different and how much is reasonable depends on the boat and conditions. I wouldn't expect a novice doubles/tech diver to have a good sense of what the norm is for assistance.

 

[lermontov]

tech diving is a pretty small community where i live - most active divers all know each other or a least know of each other. That creates a sense of comaraderie and theres NEVER been a dive charter ive been on that crew and other divers aren't willing to assist in not only getting out but also gearing up. Isnt that what we had stamped on us at OW level - the 'buddy system'
It would also make sense for any boat charter to build a rapport with paying customers by making their experience enjoyable, but its more than that its about being helpful and friendly and a decent human being.

The vast majority of divers can get out of the water unaided if not there are options like clipping off tank etc on lines and pulling them in after etc. but its slow and clumsy. I think in the case that this thread has spurned its a matter of drawing a line, not so much of giving assistance when needed but maybe not getting any appreciation for doing so.

Most tech divers have a self reliant mindset anyway so Im not sure they are 'expecting' assistance but its always appreciated when its offered. If a charter boat told me if you can get out of the water unaided you cant dive - I wouldn't want dive with them again, not because I couldnt get out of the water unaided but because for me diving is about community and enjoying mutual interest as much as it is about the challenge.

 

[Boston Breakwater]

because for me diving is about community and enjoying mutual interest as much as it is about the challenge.

I wasn't going to touch this one....But, here it goes. I'm soon to be 55 years old, I'm 6'3" tall, and 245Lbs, and I'm as strong as a bull. I dive with single Steel 121's, and single Steel 120's. on a regular basis, I toss them around pretty good. When, I'm kitted with double 120's, or 95's and (2) 40 cubic bottles I'm probably over 400 lbs. I had an instance a couple of weeks ago where the area to put your "Extra." equipment was full. So....in full gear, I climbed the steps, and walked to wear I could remove my gear. I could feel it in my legs, especially in my calves, and quads. (and then, for 3 days later.)
Did I need help? Of couse not, kind of, well maybe? Would, I have graciously accepted help? Absolutely. Although, sometimes my mind still thinks I'm a 21 year old 2nd Battalion Recon Marine my body says otherwise.
I remember back when I was a Divemaster, and then as a O.W.S.I..................................................... I did everything, and anything to help people/customers whether it was on shore, or on a boat. (The Atlantic ocean can be tumultuous, and unforgiving.)
Just being on a boat in 6-8 foot swells can be dangerous by it's self, let alone climbing on board with S.C.U.B.A. gear.
I still have that mentality, and will gladly help anyone that needs it. All you really need to do is......................................................................................................................................be a human.
I'm actually getting a little heated typing this.....so I'll end here.
Everything, I need to know, I learned in second grade.
@lermontov said it quite nicely, at the end of his post, and thanks to everyone that was being positive about this thread.
Cheers.

 

[JackOfDiamonds]

So why do people make a condition of being able to climb a ladder with all your stuff in order to be able to techdive?

Even for recreational diving if you cant climb back on the ladder on your own or preform basic requirement that tells me you are dependent on other people and a possible burden should some is to happen.

I can give you a personal example - In a recent boat dive i had one of the divers got really sea sick right before climbing the ladder, he was non responsive almost as if he was in shock and beginning to drift away from the boat.
Since i was already out of my gear on the boat i jumped back in the water to drag him back, fighting against the 5-6ft swells and the ripping currents of the Med.
The last thing i would need at that moment is having to drag somebody else up the ladder because they are too overweight / out of shape / old / injured to do it themselves. (or if you cant even drag yourself back up how can you be expected to help drag someone else during an emergency?)

To sum it up if you are jumping in the water knowing full well you cannot preform what would be considered as basic tasks or requirements (what would happen if you encountered a current? say **** it and rely on your buddies to drag you?) than you are not only a burden but also reckless for willingly risking other people who might have to jump in and save you.

When i injured my knee i did not go diving knowing full well that if something is to happen im going to be a burden and possible risk for others.

 

[Jared0425]

Lift installed on my boat. I have a backup Christmas tree ladder next to it.

 

[DBPacific]

Even for recreational diving if you cant climb back on the ladder on your own or preform basic requirement that tells me you are dependent on other people and a possible burden should some is to happen.

I can give you a personal example - In a recent boat dive i had one of the divers got really sea sick right before climbing the ladder, he was non responsive almost as if he was in shock and beginning to drift away from the boat.
Since i was already out of my gear on the boat i jumped back in the water to drag him back, fighting against the 5-6ft swells and the ripping currents of the Med.
The last thing i would need at that moment is having to drag somebody else up the ladder because they are too overweight / out of shape / old / injured to do it themselves. (or if you cant even drag yourself back up how can you be expected to help drag someone else during an emergency?)

To sum it up if you are jumping in the water knowing full well you cannot preform what would be considered as basic tasks or requirements (what would happen if you encountered a current? say **** it and rely on your buddies to drag you?) than you are not only a burden but also reckless for willingly risking other people who might have to jump in and save you.

When i injured my knee i did not go diving knowing full well that if something is to happen im going to be a burden and possible risk for others.

The main question in that example is: did that diver know that he had a history of severe sea sickness and if so, did he take steps to minimize it?

There are big differences between someone with a condition known to them who can and does take steps to mitigate it but in an emergency might still need help, someone with a condition known to them who doesn't do anything, and someone who simply has a random sh*t day and needs help.

I have never met a diver, either online or in-person, who seems to fit in the second group. I know divers in the first, including myself and every single one of us is determined to be as independent as possible to get the job or the dive done with a minimum of aid from crew and buddies (beyond the basic requirements of the buddy system).

I understand and usually support the "if you can't meet these basic levels of fitness, you shouldn't dive because of the risk to yourself and others" but so far there seems to be more worry about divers taking advantage of the help that crew and buddies give and hoping things don't go wrong.