Teaching ascent to new divers

[formernuke]

I was taught horizontal at a shop that was GUE at a in shop only class so not part of any official agency curriculum. Does GUE teach it and is GUE still considered rec level or is it tec?

 

[scubadada]

...OW students are taught to raise their LPI and gradually release air to maintain a controlled ascent. However, in a fully horizontal position, it can be quite difficult to expel all the air from the average BCD, potentially leading to an uncontrolled ascent for the very inexperienced...

Butt dump

 

[Jim Lapenta]

I teach my students this from the first pool session when we are ascending from a breath-hold dive. That's the foundation. Once on SCUBA, we start with horizontal descents and ascents in the shallow end. We don't actually do vertical ascents until we move to the deep end and I have them start out horizontal and then get vertical to do a 360 sweep to make sure the surface is clear of boats or other obstructions. They are told that this is used in situations where that may be an issue. In our local spots where there are no boats, we do horizontal ascents all the way up.
So in the pool, while we practice both, the students may start a descent vertical until their head goes under the water. Then they need to get vertical.
On ascents, we start out by swimming from the deep end to the shallow end and that's done horizontally venting from the BC and using lung volume to start. After a few of those we do a controlled ascent from the bottom to the surface. Horizontal not vertical.
A big reason for this is that our local spots have very silty bottoms. Starting and even continuing a vertical ascent from shallower than 30 feet is going to reduce vis to nothing. So by the time we go to do checkouts, they don't even think about a vertical ascent until that last 5-10 feet or so. It's horizontal to start and using buoyancy control to not have to kick even when they get vertical that last bit.
SDI standards require "controlled ascents" and "controlled descents" but don't dictate they be done vertical. Thank god.

 

[The Chairman]

I have a question for instructors and dive professionals. Why do we not train new divers to dive the way we dive ourselves?

Le sigh... I always set the example and teach to my example. Monkey see: monkey do!

I don't kneel, sit or stand on the bottom...

• Neither do my students

I dive with good trim and use my breathing to regulate my depth: not my BCD...

• So do my students

I don't do bounce dives in class (or otherwise)...

• Neither do my students

I always listen for my buddy breathing on their reg before we dive...

• So do my students

I ascend the last 15 ft very slowly, in a heads up, turning a full circle or two, looking for boats...

• So do my students

 

[tursiops]

I teach my students this from the first pool session when we are ascending from a breath-hold dive. That's the foundation. Once on SCUBA, we start with horizontal descents and ascents in the shallow end. We don't actually do vertical ascents until we move to the deep end and I have them start out horizontal and then get vertical to do a 360 sweep to make sure the surface is clear of boats or other obstructions. They are told that this is used in situations where that may be an issue. In our local spots where there are no boats, we do horizontal ascents all the way up.
So in the pool, while we practice both, the students may start a descent vertical until their head goes under the water. Then they need to get vertical.
On ascents, we start out by swimming from the deep end to the shallow end and that's done horizontally venting from the BC and using lung volume to start. After a few of those we do a controlled ascent from the bottom to the surface. Horizontal not vertical.
A big reason for this is that our local spots have very silty bottoms. Starting and even continuing a vertical ascent from shallower than 30 feet is going to reduce vis to nothing. So by the time we go to do checkouts, they don't even think about a vertical ascent until that last 5-10 feet or so. It's horizontal to start and using buoyancy control to not have to kick even when they get vertical that last bit.
SDI standards require "controlled ascents" and "controlled descents" but don't dictate they be done vertical. Thank god.

The important thing about Jim's post is the point there is more than one way to ascend, and the best way depends on the situation. So in basic OW training, you try and give people the simplest, safest, most controllable way first, and then add other, sometime more appropriate ways. He and his students do a lot of diving in places without boats...that skews the balance of what is appropriate.

 

[Graeme Fraser]

Not an instructor, but coming down on the side of thinking that if the student has insufficient buoyancy skill and control to do an un-aided open water ascent safely, correctly at a safe rate of ascending, including the last 15 feet, then bestowing that student with a card that states he/she is an open water diver is a bit off to say the least. But it is how the industry is “tuned”. Why I do not really follow.

I don’t care if un-aided is interpreted as complete free water ascent, no line
... or as only the line of your own, correctly self deployed at you chosen depth of deployment dsmb is available. I may personally think both skills are necessary to truly do “open water” safely. I think the beginner course should cover those skills, even if it then goes longer even if at extra cost for those that take longer to get there.

Again, this is just my opinion, I am aware that as a non-instructor I do not have to worry about little realism nags as to how to successfully make money with that approach. But I also benefit and suffer from the industry approach as is.
Benefit: A family member has an OW cert, and we therefore can dive together and also use those dives to practice and get actually safe as divers.
Suffer, because that family member deems her cert. level as sufficient and sees no need in becoming a better diver. It’s good enough to see the colorful fish... even so that person I.e. could not yet really reliably (sometimes maybe, sometimes definitely not) a truly safe ascent if her buddy were to get lost.
That, despite limited depth and all, that I need to change.

And imho, so should the industry.

In my specific case doing something like stating, or referring to a written, published, list of skills that OW divers should use their certificate for to get proficient with before they truly can consider themselves “safe OW divers” would help as it would lead instructors and learn hesitant students to acknowledge that bear bones OW skills alone really are not truly safe just yet in true OW, even limited to 60 ft...

Some individuals just happily learn... some prefer to spend more energy arguing the need for learning than doing the learning (truly over coming an ingrained fear of water can be a lengthy process, and of course one needs to hold on to a very healthy respect of water). For those individuals the bestowing of an OW certificate at the skill level it gets bestowed is, imho, dangerous. For most others it may work just fine. I for one was happy to be let loose and go romp Bonaire at that level... but I have my work cut out to keep that family member safe until the skill set is up to “truly being safe”.

Vertical doesn't mean uncontrolled and horizontal doesn't necessarily mean controlled. What we are trying to teach is a managed, safe, controlled ascent, not a "look at my ninja skills, aren't I the dogs bollocks!" ascent.

This is not about churning out hordes of sub-standard divers, it's about being realistic and using the limited time we have to produce safe, conscientious novice divers with a solid platform to develop into great divers.

 

[shoredivr]

Thanks a lot for the information guys. Am I correct to understand that instructors are teaching the horizontal trim and ascent out of their own initiative. This is not part of the official training of a diver at any level. There is no course book or agency sponsored video from most agencies in which this method would be introduced.Correct?

RAID OW starts them horizontally

 

[Scared Silly]

My OW instructor jokingly said that if he did not see bubbles coming from us as we ascended that we would feel his presence. The joke was that he would punch us in the gut, forcing us to exhale.

 

[johndiver999]

RAID OW starts them horizontally

That was not good. A boat could run him down from behind. Vertical and spinning on final ascent is safer in more conditions.

 

[rongoodman]

RAID OW starts them horizontally

I like everything about it except for the use of the LPI. I think the butt dump is more precise and if you're flat or a little head-down, the air bubble is right underneath it.