NACD Instructor standards violation

[bamafan]

I have been told that PSAI has approved for their AN / DP class or whatever they call it can be taught at EN. I also was told there was no requirement for the students to have any cave training at all. I was also told that several classes have already taken olace there. Has anyone else heard this? Well I was just told that the class was actually TDI not PSAI but the instructor teaches for both.

 

[tiki_bill]

The student posted a first hand account along with dive details and the instructor's name. If the NACD doesn't have the self initiative to investigate, that's just as wrong as the instructor in question IMO.

The NACD should investigate every accusation posted on internet forums in addition to formal written complaints?

 

[victorzamora]

The NACD should investigate every accusation posted on internet forums in addition to formal written complaints?

I'm certainly not proposing this, but I think "every accusation posted on internet forums" is a little skewed from reality here. There's a difference in "every accusation posted on internet forums" and "a direct statement by a student about an instructor, with names being firmly and concretely held on both sides, regarding actions that are logged and clearly defined, in an internet thread in which the head of an agency has actively participated in."

However, if the policy is that a formal complaint must be filed...then that's the policy. I'm not saying you have to like it, but you do have to follow it. This is kind of a weird scenario. The other question it asks is what about other agencies? High-level representatives from other agencies have been involved with more than one thread where clear standards violations have been shown. If it were me, I'd send an official statement out to all agency instructors with a head's up regarding these policies simply stating "There's obviously been a smidge of confusion regarding some policies. This is the official ruling on these practices, just be aware." Then an extra note to some that you've seen or heard reports of doing similar things just saying "So, yeah, if you don't know then maybe you should...." I know a lot of big names are VERY out of touch with happenings here...it wouldn't hurt to give them a head's up officially.

 

[Sylvester Muller]

I have been told that PSAI has approved for their AN / DP class or whatever they call it can be taught at EN. I also was told there was no requirement for the students to have any cave training at all. I was also told that several classes have already taken olace there. Has anyone else heard this? Well I was just told that the class was actually TDI not PSAI but the instructor teaches for both.

The management plan for Eagles Nest does not allow For Profit activity on the preserve without a vendor's agreement with the FWC(good luck). Secondly after the conferences with the FWC, NSS-CDS, NACD, and the IUCRR the ballroom is considered a cave zone. There is no cavern zone at Eagles Nest, and a reaper sign was installed at the top of the solution tube to mark the cave zone boundary at the bottom of the solution tube. The ballroom is far too deep to be considered a cavern. By standards if one is a full cave certified diver, one can only go to the top of the debris cone(130') without additional trimix/depth rated certifications. Lastly would your instructors insurance pay if something were to happen and it comes out you were conducting unauthorized business and someone got hurt?

 

[karstdvr]

I have been told that PSAI has approved for their AN / DP class or whatever they call it can be taught at EN. I also was told there was no requirement for the students to have any cave training at all. I was also told that several classes have already taken olace there. Has anyone else heard this? Well I was just told that the class was actually TDI not PSAI but the instructor teaches for both.

This probably occurs,and sure hope there isn't any agency that considers non-cave trained people enter Eagles Nest is okay. But, everyone on this forum should be pissed. Getting Eagles Nest reopened after several years of closure was tough, and there was concerted effort to keep it open after the last accident which involved non-cave trained people. If the above scenario is really occurring, then this is affecting your future access if an accident should occur. Remember, the few can screw it up for the many.

 

[Capt Jim Wyatt]

I have been told that PSAI has approved for their AN / DP class or whatever they call it can be taught at EN. I also was told there was no requirement for the students to have any cave training at all. I was also told that several classes have already taken olace there. Has anyone else heard this? Well I was just told that the class was actually TDI not PSAI but the instructor teaches for both.

Hopefully the agency did not name Eagles' Nest. Eagles' Nest is not a place for this. If they did approve it then shame on them...

 

[karstdvr]

You there are probably (very likely) people who are taken to EN for AN/DP training and told that it is okay, and I do it all the time. I think we just found out that scootering Mainland with inadequate gas planning,even though it was done successfully in the past, could have a negative consequence. EN is considered the Mt Everest of cave diving for a reason, and EN has collected its fair share of head stones from people who don't respect it.

 

[bamafan]

Hopefully the agency did not name Eagles' Nest. Eagles' Nest is not a place for this. If they did approve it then shame on them...

I was told that TDI specifically said Eagle's Nest was ok for this training. Frankly I wouldn't be suprised if someone posting on this thread was in one of the classes. The hypocrisy of all this is sickening to me. I personally gave up caring when I saw people who complain the loudest put money ahead of the crap they spout about safety and cave training. Personally from what I have seen it is do as I say not as I do and it is all okay as long as you are in a certain group. None of this affects me one way or the other as nothing is going to change. From what I have seen the NACD is about done for. It appears to me that they have about 2 dozen active instructors at most and from their financials things don't look to good. It wouldn't suprise me if GUE was doing more cave training than the NACD. Just my thoughts on the politics as I find it and the drama very childish. I have personally been told by one shop owner that I wasn't welcome at his shop if I went diving with certain other people. He later apologized and said when he gets mad he says things he shouldn't. Fine if that is the way you want to act but I go out of my way to not use that shop now or send anyone to it. I think the ego / political crap in cave diving is the worst part and it is really a shame. I have heard so much bs from some people in this sport about other people that it is a real turnoff to me and I am sure others too.

 

[Capt Jim Wyatt]

I was told that TDI specifically said Eagle's Nest was ok for this training.

I think the ego / political crap in cave diving is the worst part and it is really a shame. I have heard so much bs from some people in this sport about other people that it is a real turnoff to me and I am sure others too.

I have e-mailed the folks at TDI and asked them if they approved EN for this.

Ego / political crap is definitely the biggest turnoff for me.

 

[karstdvr]

. None of this affects me one way or the other as nothing is going to change. .

The problem is this does effect you,and me. When stupid things are done and there is an accident, our access to that sight can be effected. But, there can be a ripple effect to other sites that become concerned for liability etc. Case in point, we came very close to losing Little River because of an accident at Royal. All sites we have access to were earned, and take effort to maintain access. Knowing something is being done that could effect your access to site in the future needs to be taken personally. I resent this in large part because I have been involved in getting 6 systems opened for cave diving, and there was a huge amount of work that was needed to get that site. We take for granted everytime we drive up,pull our tanks, and dive,but in reality someone or a team has worked very hard to get each one of us the ability to do this.