Help Needed: Shady Dive Operator?

[MXGratefulDiver]

My advanced level class is 425.00 and all inclusive. Students must supply their own gear. They can either rent or own it. I do supply the reels, spools, lift bags, and stage bottles. Six dives, 6-8 hours of classroom, and all materials for the classroom.
But then my aow is not like any other I am aware of. Except maybe Bob Bailey's. And it can be tailored to some extent to the diver. It can also be done in doubles or sidemount if the student wants and has the gear.

Yes, very similar to mine. I charge $400 for my NAUI Advanced Scuba Diver class. That price includes all needed books and handouts, about 10 hours of class time, a minimum of 6 dives (more dives as needed to meet class objectives). Students supply their own equipment, except for SMBs, lift bags, reels and spools ... I'll happily loan gear out if someone wants to try something like a backplate or a wrist compass and don't own one (I have several of each). For the deep dive I will supply large-capacity tanks if the student needs them ... I won't take anyone to 100 feet on an AL80. All dives are from shore, so there are no boat or access fees involved. If there were, costs for the boat would be factored into the (much higher) cost for the class.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[azmodan50]

Hello!

On the website for the dive shop, it states:

The full Advanced Open Water course includes all books, materials, tanks, weights, instruction, training dives, and certification.
Cost:
$285 + gear (full Advanced Open Water Course) or
$200 + gear (Advanced Open Water eLearning)

If this is what their website says, then they are being shady. From this statement alone, "The full Advanced Open Water course includes all books, materials, tanks, weights, instruction, training dives, and certification.", everything but gear is included in that price unless "training dives" are separate from the certification dives. But right below it says "$285 + gear", so the only extra it states that needs to be paid for is gear.

I'm not saying that some places may not charge that much, but they are not being very truthful in their advertising.

 

[DivemasterDennis]

The question is, what would be the cost of doing the 5 dives if you were not doing them as part of aow certification. If you would be paying $50 per dive to go out on the boat, then actual costs of your class is $600 - 250, or $350.00, but then you need to subtract what the gear rental would be if you were not taking a class, because that was indicated in the dive shop's statement. If the cost would be $100 if you rented everything for 2 days, then the representation of the dive operator may have been essentially accurate The issue is not so much the cost, but whether or not you feel the shop has been dishonest or misleading. If you feel that is the case, then I agree you should not take the class there.
DivemasterDennis

 

[DBailey]

explaining that it was $285 + the cost of five dives and equipment. On this forum, it seems that many people say the AOW costs between $150 and $300- but does that include dives?

Thanks for any help you can offer.

Our shop has a flat rate AOW. This is based on doing the training dives based on our class schedule and at the local quarry (shore dives). We can do them on Lake Michigan, but the student would then need to foot the bill for the boat costs. I am guessing something similar is happening here.

 

[Earl Grey]

The question is, what would be the cost of doing the 5 dives if you were not doing them as part of aow certification. If you would be paying $50 per dive to go out on the boat, then actual costs of your class is $600 - 250, or $350.00, but then you need to subtract what the gear rental would be if you were not taking a class, because that was indicated in the dive shop's statement. If the cost would be $100 if you rented everything for 2 days, then the representation of the dive operator may have been essentially accurate The issue is not so much the cost, but whether or not you feel the shop has been dishonest or misleading. If you feel that is the case, then I agree you should not take the class there.
DivemasterDennis

With all due respect, I don't think that is the question. Many shops subsidize the boat ride for divers who are taking classes, especially if the shop owns the boat. One shouldn't have to do market research and back into the numbers in order to determine the "real" price. If a shop tells me that the "training dives" are included, I don't think it is illogical to assume that means a boat ride to the site.

As for the OP question on the price being reasonable, it seems T&C is generally more expensive. A competitor lists their price as "Course fee includes instruction, equipment and dives. $480.00", which is not far off from the $600 quoted to the OP.

 

[Wookie]

If I charge more than my competitor (I do), am I ripping off my customer? Am I being shady? Maybe I offer a better level of service, or higher quality cuts of meat, or I have a better crew. Maybe I want to make a bigger profit quicker than he (or she) does. I'm not forcing someone to buy my service, and it seems to me that the OP found out the true cost very shortly after making an inquiry. So the shop in question used a business tactic used all over the world to get the OP in the door to make the sale. Do you really think that you can buy a car with no money down?

 

[cdmbrennan]

After some email discussions with the dive shop (and the competitors), it seems that the $600 price is standard for an AOW on T&C:

Dive Operator:
The Advanced Open Water course is $250 including processing of the
certification card. This does not include the dives.
Dives are $95 per day for the two tank dive. And $60 for a night dive if
you do a night dive as part of your course. The gear rental is $20 per day.

Another:
The AOW course is $285 if you do everything on island, ($200 if you have already done the eLearning part of the course). The dives are $105 for 2 tanks and $80 for 1 tank, so the total will $575

I'm assuming the "training dives" are held in the open water directly off-shore, followed by five boat dives. I guess I wasn't clear that a "training dive" would be separate from a boat dive (as it were). It seems that everything is above board, if pricey. I didn't come to T&C to dive (just to relax, really) but the Wall seems too nice to pass up, and I think I'll advance my certification and get some great dives in, too- all dive operators seem extremely knowledgeable and friendly.

Thanks for all the advice and feedback- much appreciated!

 

[boulderjohn]

I'm assuming the "training dives" are held in the open water directly off-shore, followed by five boat dives. I guess I wasn't clear that a "training dive" would be separate from a boat dive (as it were). It seems that everything is above board, if pricey. I didn't come to T&C to dive (just to relax, really) but the Wall seems too nice to pass up, and I think I'll advance my certification and get some great dives in, too- all dive operators seem extremely knowledgeable and friendly.

Thanks for all the advice and feedback- much appreciated![/FONT][/COLOR]

There should be a total of 5 dives in the course, whether they are done from shore or from a boat.

 

[azmodan50]

If I charge more than my competitor (I do), am I ripping off my customer? Am I being shady? Maybe I offer a better level of service, or higher quality cuts of meat, or I have a better crew. Maybe I want to make a bigger profit quicker than he (or she) does. I'm not forcing someone to buy my service, and it seems to me that the OP found out the true cost very shortly after making an inquiry. So the shop in question used a business tactic used all over the world to get the OP in the door to make the sale. Do you really think that you can buy a car with no money down?

I don't think charging more makes you shady. But not being upfront about the total cost is. And I would think the same of any business that practices this form of deceit.

The old bate and switch is the worst business practice in use today. Just glad I'm with an honest dive operator.

 

[mathauck0814]

what is included, what DO you include for your price

My time and the required course work materials. Student should have their own equipment and since they'll be deciding how we conduct the training (it's THEIR training afterall) they can select and pay for the dive platform (which includes my seat if they decide a boat is required).

and what do you charge? (A ballpark estimate is fine.)

I charge a flat rate on a per-day basis that you're welcome to split with a friend (I don't usually accept more than two students unless the course itself benefits from adding bodies). The pricing of trips at shops is very arbitrary. My time is worth a rate, what you'd like to learn from me during that time is up to you.

It also simplifies the performance problem. I'll estimate that we'll need X days to complete a course. If at the end of those days you're not performing at an acceptable level, we'll meet for another day. Or you'll self qualify out, go work on things and come back when you think you've remedied the problem. In that way I don't have to feel rushed to "get everything in" and deny the student the opportunity to actually have learned something; rather than just assigning a card.