Definition of Open Water certification

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mrlipis

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Location
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I write this as a spin off from "The future of diving" and take a quote from the poster "Nemrod"... "Giant inland scuba them parks". I know of such a project in the planning stages but DO NOT want the details of that project to be on the discussion table. My question is this. Let's assume that this large aquarium is under roof. At what point will the agencies allow the OW certification to be completed in such a facility? It is allowed at Homestead crater in Utah, which might as well be under roof. I am curious of everyones thoughts. If one can learn to ski indoors (Dubai) I would think this as an acceptable practice, should a facility be able to meet certain requirements.

For the sake of argument let's assume this aquarium measures 100 feet wide by 250 long and a maximum depth of 70 feet.

Bruce
 
There's something about being out in the open water that raises the stress level of a person. Somehow swimming in a pool provides a sense of security that an open water diver can rely on. For an instructor to be able to say that this person can successfully go down to 60 feet and back to the surface without killing him/herself or someone else, the instructor needs to stress the diver to some extent. In my opinion, that stress level cannot be attained in a swimming pool, especially if you can look around and see the walls all the way around.

Functionally, 70 feet of water is 70 feet of water. But in reality, its a lot easier with high visibility, no current and no waves.
 
For the sake of argument let's assume this aquarium measures 100 feet wide by 250 long and a maximum depth of 70 feet.

Bruce

If a PADI rep could jump in here and list the reasons why those open water dives at the end of the open water cert are actually done in open water rather than a pool then it'd probably answer the question. I did my open water certification dives in Bonaire under just about the most ideal circumstances imaginable. That certainly didn't prepare me in any way for diving in the midwest USA or the Great Lakes. That stuff I had to learn from diving locally with divers who had the local experience and know-how and some self-study. I suppose all of that could be considered as a sort of ongoing advanced training curriculum.
Personally, I think getting the open water certification completed by doing the last dives in a gigantic aquarium is probably a little tamer and comfortable than my certification dive in Bonaire, but I doubt whether it would've really put the hook in me for diving the way Bonaire did. Those open water dives for me gave me a taste of what was out there waiting for me. I don't think a pool dive could ever approximate that experience, but I've never been to a scuba-based theme park so I'll keep an open mind on that.
:coffee:
 
Not to be argumentative Jim, but I have seen open water sites in Florida that are in 10 ft of water on the intercoastal. Is one better than the other? Maybe.

Bruce
 
Not to be argumentative Jim, but I have seen open water sites in Florida that are in 10 ft of water on the intercoastal. Is one better than the other? Maybe.

Bruce

Do you mean 10 feet of visibility or 10 feet of depth? Your post is not clear. 10 feet of depth would be ridiculous. You would not use that site to prepare an open water diver.

10 feet of visibility is unsuitable for open water training because you cannot maintain a group of new divers and watch skills under those conditions. Even at some advanced levels of training, it is too low a visibility for skills.

So would you use that site to prepare an open water diver? No, you wouldn't.
 
I write this as a spin off from "The future of diving" and take a quote from the poster "Nemrod"... "Giant inland scuba them parks". I know of such a project in the planning stages but DO NOT want the details of that project to be on the discussion table. My question is this. Let's assume that this large aquarium is under roof. At what point will the agencies allow the OW certification to be completed in such a facility? It is allowed at Homestead crater in Utah, which might as well be under roof. I am curious of everyones thoughts. If one can learn to ski indoors (Dubai) I would think this as an acceptable practice, should a facility be able to meet certain requirements.

For the sake of argument let's assume this aquarium measures 100 feet wide by 250 long and a maximum depth of 70 feet.

Bruce


It's still not "open water". It's a "confined" space no matter how big it is. As a certified diver I would never go to such a facility, I prefer to dive in the "real" ocean. But, something like this I think might appeal to the non diving community as a way of experiencing what it "might" be like in the ocean. Kind of like a "resort dive". JMHO :eek:rca:
 
When you consider that many OW certifications are done in small lakes and quarries, you begin to wonder what defines "confined" and "open" water. Certainly an open sky overhead shouldn't be the determinent.

I feel that the OW certification as taught by many agencies (lets not debate the adequecy of teaching here) is simply one where the candidate demonstrates the basic knowledge, skills and temperment that predicts that he can dive within a reasonable margin of safety. Actual skill in diving well is developed through experience and additional training.

Within those minimum goals, open water skills could be demonstrated indoors, under the conditions discribed in the OP as well as they can in what are now accepted venues.

There remains the issue demonstrating confidence during a "real" experience, but that's always been true. Unless one does his certification dives in cold, choppy, low viz sea conditions, with surge and current, without an anchor or descent line, and no shore in sight, there's no way one can be sure that assured of being prepared for any conditions.

So, for those areas with no big water around, go for it, and I'm sure the agencies will come around to accept it. And rightfully so.
 
Heck, I'll dive a mud puddle if its deep enough... For some people, that would be a lot better than where I was certified... Max depth was 30 ft, with viz of 2-3 ft max, temp 68... This was done in trunks only... Needless to say, when I hit 78 ft in the Caribbean with 84 degree water, and 75-100 ft viz, I was glad that I certified in my mud puddle...

But that being said, I am 100% certain my wife would have preferred a large OW/Confined space as you project to do her certifications in. Not many people are comfortable in the crappy viz that we certified in...

IMHO, I see little difference in the environment that you are proposing vs. the man-made 15 acre quarry that we dove in (except the brutal cold and viz). If I could do it all over again, I would opt to dive a larger, and much clearer lake, but then I would miss out on my favorite mud puddle.
 
Do you mean 10 feet of visibility or 10 feet of depth? Your post is not clear. 10 feet of depth would be ridiculous. You would not use that site to prepare an open water diver.

10 feet of visibility is unsuitable for open water training because you cannot maintain a group of new divers and watch skills under those conditions. Even at some advanced levels of training, it is too low a visibility for skills.

So would you use that site to prepare an open water diver? No, you wouldn't.

There are plenty of quarries and inland lakes used that do indeed have 10 feet or less of visibilty. Then there is the Gulf of Mexico which may have ten feet or less. I believe that operations in the Venice area routinely do their open water dives off the beach there, which often has less than 10 feet of viz.
 
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