Israeli woman drowns during epileptic incident - Sharm el-Sheikh, Egypt

[Aura]

I think that would be better stated as "It is our right to do things that might get us killed" and that we do not have a duty to avoid risks that we find worthwhile because of the potential negative outcome on others.

Word it however you want, I simply disagree. Lying on a medical and forcing people to potentially deal with a life threatening situation that YOU caused, without giving them a chance to say no, is so unethical that I find it baffling that people can justify it to themselves. But apparently you can, and that's fair enough I guess. But this discussion has already been had, and I have no interest in repeating it.

 

[boulderjohn]

Only a few weeks ago, David Concannon, an attorney specializing in scuba cases, wrote about this topic of lying on the medical forms. He said the overwhelming number of scuba legal cases involve divers who died from medical issues, and he said they commonly lied on medical forms so they could dive.

Please note what that means: after they decided that it was their right to die on a dive of a medical condition they chose not to disclose, the dive operations to whom they lied were sued by their families.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Only a few weeks ago, David Concannon, an attorney specializing in scuba cases, wrote about this topic of lying on the medical forms. He said the overwhelming number of scuba legal cases involve divers who died from medical issues, and he said they commonly lied on medical forms so they could dive.

Please note what that means: after they decided that it was their right to die on a dive of a medical condition they chose not to disclose, the dive operations to whom they lied were sued by their families.

Like the Tuvell case.....

 

[Bob DBF]

The problem isn't the diver only, it is their buddy, the people diving with them on the boat, the divemaster, boat captain, etc. If one diver is hurt, all of these folks will be affected in a negative way and in different degrees.

Same problem one would have with a fatal highway accident.

 

[tursiops]

We had a long discussion about that exact thing in this thread previously. Quite a lot of people on scubaboard apparently think that their right to dive with various health problems overrules any regard for other people involved.

That is because testosterone is more powerful than common sense and decency.

 

[CJ74U2NV]

Then I would suggest reading it. I posted a link that was appropriate for the discussion, if you have a problem with it, please take it up with the author.

Personally, I believe that people be able to determine what risk they are willing to take, and the medical questionnaire in scuba is unnecessarily intrusive.

You posted and there's no reason to be a jerk about it. It's also false. You take it up with PADI and you closest neurologist, both of whom you obviously know more than.

 

[DandyDon]

they commonly lied on medical forms so they could dive.

Please note what that means: after they decided that it was their right to die on a dive of a medical condition they chose not to disclose, the dive operations to whom they lied were sued by their families.

That would be a weak case, but we know that defending even against worthless suits is expensive.

 

[happy-diver]

We had a long discussion about that exact thing in this thread previously. Quite a lot of people on scubaboard apparently think that their right to dive with various health problems overrules any regard for other people involved.

I think that would be better stated as "It is our right to do things that might get us killed" and that we do not have a duty to avoid risks that we find worthwhile because of the potential negative outcome on others.

Word it however you want, I simply disagree. Lying on a medical and forcing people to potentially deal with a life threatening situation that YOU caused, without giving them a chance to say no, is so unethical that I find it baffling that people can justify it to themselves. But apparently you can, and that's fair enough I guess. But this discussion has already been had, and I have no interest in repeating it.

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I don't know who "the majority of diving authorities" are that you're quoting, but PADI does allow epileptic sufferers to dive if they can get medical clearance. My son is epileptic and he dives. He had to have an EEG and evaluation to get the medical clearance from his neurologist. I forget the frequency that he has to have EEGs done for diving, but he gets them annually anyways. There are many different degrees and types of epilepsy. Common sense, proper planning and assumed risk play huge roles in diving whether you have an underlying condition or not.

Does this mean you have reduced probabilities from 50% to 49% or the like

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[SlugLife]

The problem isn't the diver only, it is their buddy, the people diving with them on the boat, the divemaster, boat captain, etc. If one diver is hurt, all of these folks will be affected in a negative way and in different degrees.

We had a long discussion about that exact thing in this thread previously. Quite a lot of people on scubaboard apparently think that their right to dive with various health problems overrules any regard for other people involved.

I can't speak for others, but the nuance I'd apply is:

• You have a right to dive however you please, including getting yourself killed
• ...so long as you're not endangering or harming others in any way.

Someone who has a medical-condition, which has a good likeliness to lead to an scuba-accident, would be putting other divers in the group at risk. That risk may include risks involved in rescuing another diver, psychological harm resulting from being around the accident, or even unnecessary civil or criminal liabilities pushed on unsuspecting divers, charters, etc.

That would be a weak case, but we know that defending even against worthless suits is expensive.

Unfortunately, when it comes to grieving families, too often all moral and legal standards are thrown out the window.

 

[Bob DBF]

...so long as you're not endangering or harming others in any way.

That can extremely wide range, I've noticed that some people are quite sensitive, and harm easily.