Israeli woman drowns during epileptic incident - Sharm el-Sheikh, Egypt

[drrich2]

Ironically I see controversial reactions to perceived 'over-reach' from both sides of the issue on the medical questionnaires.

1.) Many individuals check 'no' to everything because they do not believe they will be dealt with fairly, reasonably and respectfully (and there are real world reports to back that up!). I'm thinking of people with mild to moderate hypertension well-controlled on meds. or who smoked a joint 6 months ago, not epileptics at known ongoing risk for seizures. Not everyone has the same concept of 'reasonably.'

2.) Then we have dive op.s fearful of serious harm (even if they win) from insane lawsuits like @boulderjohn and @Aura mentioned, and the physicians and perhaps nurse practitioners the liability risk bag gets punted to tasked to sign off on medical clearances, when at least in the U.S. the threat of malpractice suits is an ever present threat and most aren't familiar with diving.

I think both sides act in accordance with their own perceived best interests, and get accused of selfish over-reach.

It's worth noting there are plenty of scenarios I doubt any of us would disagree about. If customers are loading onto the dive boat, I don't think active epileptics, diabetics whose blood sugar that morning is in the 400's or asthmatics trying to mask wheezing after heavy inhaler use just prior to boarding are people any of us would advocate to be on the boat. On the other hand, if someone did a joint 4 1/2 years ago (to use @dmaziuk example) and checks 'no,' even if you are a stickler on principle, I doubt you see much risk for other divers.

 

[dmaziuk]

It's worth noting there are plenty of scenarios I doubt any of us would disagree about. If customers are loading onto the dive boat, I don't think active epileptics, diabetics whose blood sugar that morning is in the 400's or asthmatics trying to mask wheezing after heavy inhaler use just prior to boarding are people any of us would advocate to be on the boat. On the other hand, if someone did a joint 4 1/2 years ago (to use @dmaziuk example) and checks 'no,' even if you are a stickler on principle, I doubt you see much risk for other divers.

My personal take on it, it's not about scenarios: **it happens. As in there are events that are various degrees of improbable, but not entirely impossible, and one may randomly take place near you. People who think they can control the world around them should go binge-watch all Final Destination movies until they Get It.

Quick google suggests that 70% of epilepsy patients are expected to be seizure-free for 5+ years with medication. For all we know that person was one of them and would have been cleared for snorkeling, with the obvious warning, by most doctors outside of These States of Litigation.

 

[Duke Dive Medicine]

My concern with asthma has been that the diver could suffer alveolar barotrauma if they ascend with small airway obstruction (even if they’re not having a symptomatic attack). Is this a risk?

That's why we do the provocative pulmonary function testing. PFT is sensitive for bronchoconstriction that the individual may not necessarily feel.

Some other agencies have different criteria. BSAC/UKDMC puts more of the onus on the diver; their guidelines are here.

Best regards,
DDM

 

[BlueTrin]

Have you actually read the WRSTC medical questionnaire? Do you really think it's wise to truthfully answer "yes" the the "recreactional drug use in the last five years" question? Especially if diving in one of those backwards places where they hang people for it?

“Is that a trick question?”

 

[xmass-Eve]

When I read this, I get really angry. I once had a student with epilepsy. She lied on her medical and her bf kept quiet too. She "really wanted to dive"! She got an attack, thank all gods, still in the pool. She was more than 300 pounds. It was hell getting her out, my colleague broke his rib because of it.

She may be lucky it happened there and then and I saw really fast something was wrong. She would have died in the sea. She upset the other students and never even said thank you.

People should know better

 

[CJ74U2NV]

Can You Scuba Dive With Epilepsy? - National Epilepsy Training.

The majority of diving authorities will not allow diving for a person with epilepsy, regardless of how long it’s been since a person’s last seizure. A smaller minority will consider it, but only after five years with no seizures after discontinuation of medication.

I don't know who "the majority of diving authorities" are that you're quoting, but PADI does allow epileptic sufferers to dive if they can get medical clearance. My son is epileptic and he dives. He had to have an EEG and evaluation to get the medical clearance from his neurologist. I forget the frequency that he has to have EEGs done for diving, but he gets them annually anyways. There are many different degrees and types of epilepsy. Common sense, proper planning and assumed risk play huge roles in diving whether you have an underlying condition or not.

 

[Bob DBF]

I don't know who "the majority of diving authorities" are that you're quoting

Then I would suggest reading it. I posted a link that was appropriate for the discussion, if you have a problem with it, please take it up with the author.

Personally, I believe that people be able to determine what risk they are willing to take, and the medical questionnaire in scuba is unnecessarily intrusive.

 

[BoltSnap]

Then I would suggest reading it. I posted a link that was appropriate for the discussion, if you have a problem with it, please take it up with the author.

Personally, I believe that people be able to determine what risk they are willing to take, and the medical questionnaire in scuba is unnecessarily intrusive.

The problem isn't the diver only, it is their buddy, the people diving with them on the boat, the divemaster, boat captain, etc. If one diver is hurt, all of these folks will be affected in a negative way and in different degrees.

 

[Aura]

The problem isn't the diver only, it is their buddy, the people diving with them on the boat, the divemaster, boat captain, etc. If one diver is hurt, all of these folks will be affected in a negative way and in different degrees.

We had a long discussion about that exact thing in this thread previously. Quite a lot of people on scubaboard apparently think that their right to dive with various health problems overrules any regard for other people involved.

 

[Cthippo]

We had a long discussion about that exact thing in this thread previously. Quite a lot of people on scubaboard apparently think that their right to dive with various health problems overrules any regard for other people involved.

I think that would be better stated as "It is our right to do things that might get us killed" and that we do not have a duty to avoid risks that we find worthwhile because of the potential negative outcome on others.