DIR- GUE Why are non-GUE divers so interested in what GUE does?

[Manatee Diver]

And the dive talk guys are tools.

Honestly I think that DT are a major problem, but they aren't the only ones.

Blueworld did a vlog about their Winder training at CA with Edd. "A majority of the top divers use Sidewinders." And I am like "What about about most of the projects not using Sidewinders?"

I feel that due to what trends of social media people have this weird view of the world. Projects pushing deeper and further get little news, but some dude that squeezes through a SM tunnel gets tons of views because it is exciting to watch, never mind that an easier bigger passage might be near by just out of view, or it has been squeezed through hundreds of times before.

 

[boulderjohn]

I don't say that you are lying, but damn, this is so difficult for me to believe... So many things are wrong on that one, and I cannot imagine a GUE-I letting them slide...

Want to hear another case where you will call me a liar?

I had a student come to me for beginning tech training. In our opening Intro to Tech dives, I saw he needed a lot of work on certain skills. It took him a long time to get the buoyancy and skills needed for the valve drill especially, but he got there, and eventually he became a very good technical diver.

It wasn't until much later that he happened to discuss his experience with GUE Fundamentals before he came to me for Intro to Tech.

 

[PEDiver]

Blueworld did a vlog about their Winder training at CA with Edd. "A majority of the top divers use Sidewinders." And I am like "What about about most of the projects not using Sidewinders?"

Undoubtably, there are exploration projects using Sidewinders. But when I think of exploration, I usually picture the RB80, Liberty, Fathom, Meg, etc. from groups like WKPP, KUR, Wet Mules. I’m actually curious now what rebreather has the most exploration hours.

 

[crofrog]

I’m actually curious now what rebreather has the most exploration hours.

Probably the oldest ones.

 

[lermontov]

Honestly I think that DT are a major problem, but they aren't the only ones.

Blueworld did a vlog about their Winder training at CA with Edd. "A majority of the top divers use Sidewinders." And I am like "What about about most of the projects not using Sidewinders?"

I feel that due to what trends of social media people have this weird view of the world. Projects pushing deeper and further get little news, but some dude that squeezes through a SM tunnel gets tons of views because it is exciting to watch, never mind that an easier bigger passage might be near by just out of view, or it has been squeezed through hundreds of times before.

I must be spoilt - there are literally more unexplored caves than cave divers in New Zealand- access is difficult and involves either helicopter access or double packing you gear through the bush. Pearce resurgence has a high profile for obvious reasons, there is but a handful of active cave explorers because it all such hard work . Nobody really takes GUE or celebrity divers very seriously here. Maybe its an American thing

 

[nadwidny]

Undoubtably, there are exploration projects using Sidewinders. But when I think of exploration, I usually picture the RB80, Liberty, Fathom, Meg, etc. from groups like WKPP, KUR, Wet Mules. I’m actually curious now what rebreather has the most exploration hours.

Those doing the exploration don't keep track and don't care.

 

[rjack321]

Undoubtably, there are exploration projects using Sidewinders. But when I think of exploration, I usually picture the RB80, Liberty, Fathom, Meg, etc. from groups like WKPP, KUR, Wet Mules. I’m actually curious now what rebreather has the most exploration hours.

The sidewinder fan boys and girls arent honest about their hours. Everyone else doesnt care and wouldn't buy a CCR (or SCR in the case of the Tres Presidente or RB80) based on some BS hour count.

 

[Wibble]

I must be spoilt - there are literally more unexplored caves than cave divers in New Zealand- access is difficult and involves either helicopter access or double packing you gear through the bush. Pearce resurgence has a high profile for obvious reasons, there is but a handful of active cave explorers because it all such hard work . Nobody really takes GUE or celebrity divers very seriously here. Maybe its an American thing

DIR evolved out of the American caves. GUE evolved to serve a DIR training demand with core roots in caving. So far so dull.

Meanwhile, in places outside of the USA — amazingly there is a whole world out there — other systems evolved that are more specific to the regional challenges for doing similar challenging diving. The ludicrous DIR system is utterly inappropriate for diving in sumps, so no-mount largely solo diving was developed in the UK with the Cave Diving Group (CDG). Don’t need no steeenking longhose in those caves.

Mexico has its own options. Australia's CDAA developed their own systems.

Here’s the point: there is no one-size-fits-all solution. Some parts of DIR makes sense, other DIR components and procedures are utterly inappropriate. It all depends upon the "mission".

GUE would attract a certain type of diver. Swallowing every aspect of the GUE system for every dive is naive at the least and down right disingenuous, especially for the more extreme end of exploration. The DIR/GUE system breaks down at the extremes: twin Megs in Pierce, sidemount in Lot and other dry/wet systems and 'wriggly' caves, etc.

Rules are for the guidance of wise men and the obedience of fools — Douglas Bader

The best explorers pick and choose the most appropriate components according to their needs and experience.

Some proponents of these rigid procedures sound like those idiot 'elf and safety nonces demanding everyone brings a snorkel.

 

[RedSix]

@Wibble
The GUE world is not black and white, too. GUE does not promote their way of diving as one-size-fits-all. GUE is not as strict as you always tell us.
You are always talking about GUE and DIR without having any clue about it. Why don't you start reading e.g. the in depth GUE blog? There you can see, that GUE is fully aware of the different ways to approach diving.
At latest when attending to a Cave 2 class you will be tought that you have to be a "thinking diver". And this also means, that there usually is not only a single way to face a problem. One of the main messages is, that if you want to dive a special environment, take the right tool for the job. This includes sidemount and even sidemount rebreathers (although GUE does not teach SM rebreather classes up to now, and maybe never will).

 

[steinbil]

Want to hear another case where you will call me a liar?

I had a student come to me for beginning tech training. In our opening Intro to Tech dives, I saw he needed a lot of work on certain skills. It took him a long time to get the buoyancy and skills needed for the valve drill especially, but he got there, and eventually he became a very good technical diver.

It wasn't until much later that he happened to discuss his experience with GUE Fundamentals before he came to me for Intro to Tech.

You fail to mention if they passed their classes, and if they did, with which rating. The first example sounds like someone with a disregard for standards and a lack of respect for learning new procedures/tools - this is a typical case for failing fundies, where lack of technical skills (need for practice) are usually given a provisional rating with tips on how to improve. You imply a lot of things (to put gasoline on the fire?), but provide few details. Who knows, maybe this person got most of training outside of GUE and had his own ideas, or maybe he was arrogant/stupid - there is no immunity to that even if you pass fundies, but it goes against everything that is taught. I mean, he clearly had no concept of team diving, and doing gas switches without a buddy also against all standards. I know you're not saying that this is taught or that this would acceptable for any instructor, so what's the point of your story?

The second example could make sense on many different levels. Provisional rating, new gear (doubles/dry suit), hiatus, lack of practice etc. So, again, what's your point? Just trolling?

Few agencies have more clearly defined and stricter standards and QA for training and instructors. Some say unnecessarily so. I haven't heard many claim that the level of training, teaching or quality of divers trained is sub par, usually I hear the opposite. So, what are you trying to say?