Medical form for dive op?

[tursiops]

How old can the medical form be?

If I need to schedule a Dr. visit more often than a damn Vis on my tanks, I'd rather just not dive with that op.

The medical form is clearly useless, judging by the trainwrecks Im diving with. Perfectly healthy people shouldnt have to jump through these hoops. And really, its none of your buisness.

There's a shop near me that only requires the medical form,
"If you checked yes" to anything on the waiver. So they'll be getting my buisness for further training. Not the shops that insist on a doctors note less than a year old. Ill be avoiding them for training.

You are peeking under your bed and seeing a monster that does not exist.

The "if you answer Yes to anything you need a doctor's signature" is for an old, no longer valid version of the medical form. The form is valid for one year from the date you fill it out and sign it. It is only required for formal training, but is sometimes used by lazy operators.

 

[MidOH]

Since I plan on training, I'm stuck wasting a day off every year for a doctors note. When those threads: "Why arent people sticking around in scuba?", pop up, you can add this to the list.

If it actually helped, I wouldnt mind it. But the med form is a waste of everybodies time. We're not safer.

 

[Tracy]

How old can the medical form be?

If I need to schedule a Dr. visit more often than a damn Vis on my tanks, I'd rather just not dive with that op.

The medical form is clearly useless, judging by the trainwrecks Im diving with. Perfectly healthy people shouldnt have to jump through these hoops. And really, its none of your buisness.

There's a shop near me that only requires the medical form,
"If you checked yes" to anything on the waiver. So they'll be getting my buisness for further training. Not the shops that insist on a doctors note less than a year old. Ill be avoiding them for training.

My waivers have to be within the year. It is a medical questionaire. There is no doctor signoff required unless one of the answers is yes.
I get the standard medical form signed off by my doctor every year during my normal checkup. I take a picture of it with my phone and if it is ever needed, I have a copy already filled out.
I make it very clear ahead of time that they need to be filled out prior to boarding and really should be done when booking in case there are any issues. Yes, it is annoying, but with fewer and fewer underwriters willing to write a dive boat policy, you don't get to pick a different one anymore.

 

[boulderjohn]

get the standard medical form signed off by my doctor every year during my normal checkup.

Like many people and likely most people, I did not start annual physicals until I was 50. Many insurance plans will not cover routine physicals for younger people.

 

[Tracy]

Like many people and likely most people, I did not start annual physicals until I was 50. Many insurance plans will not cover routine physicals for younger people.

That is possible, but I'm a long way from 50 and have been having annual physicals for at least a decade. Any insurance plan I ever had covered an annual wellness visit. Plus my annual DOT physical, plus the coast guard physical, lots of options to get it done for me personally.

 

[drrich2]

How many folks here think it's OK to lie on any operators medical release form if that's what it takes to get you what you want....which is to allow you continue your trip and dive?

A lot, but the way the issue is phrased is a big issue. One might rather ask how many think it's okay to withhold information from businesses who would use it to discriminate against them, or impose onerous requirements, on the basis of what the diver considers minor things, based on liability management (that a 'no' checked form helps with)?

A common accusation from past threads on the subject has been that such divers are selfish, jeopardizing dive guides who might need to enact in-water rescues in the event of a crisis, boat staff who might be psychologically traumatized, other divers whose trip might be cut short, etc... There's truth to that...but we put others in some danger when we drive a car on public roads. By choosing to dive, the diver 'votes' he considers the risk low.

While myocarditis from acute infection is more common in the elderly than myocarditis caused by mRNA vaccination, that is not the case for young men.

Thanks for the post. For others interested, I think the key points are found under the Discussion section, particularly this (bold emphasis mine):

"Our analysis showed higher rates of myocarditis than reported by the CDC through the Vaccine Adverse Events Reporting System (VAERS). As of a 7 June 2022, presentation, VAERS documented 4.64 cases per 100,000 doses for those aged 12–15 and 7.59 cases per 100,000 doses for those aged 16–17 after dose 2 of the Pfizer vaccine.11 However, data from Vaccine Safety Datalink (VSD) aligns better with our report. Vaccine Safety Datalink reports 15.3 cases per 100,000 doses for those aged 12–15 and 13.9 cases per 100,000 doses for those aged 16–17 after dose 2 of the Pfizer vaccine.11 Notably, Sharff et al found that VSD undercounts cases of myocarditis. Her analysis using encounter text description keyword searching identified five additional cases of myocarditis that were missed using VSD methodology.9

Furthermore, we found that for both Pfizer and Moderna vaccines, the risk of myocarditis is orders of magnitude greater after the second dose compared to the first dose, especially for age groups under 25. There are five studies reporting an incidence greater than 10 cases per 100,000 persons (or doses) in men aged 12–19 after dose 2 of the Pfizer vaccine. The risk of myocarditis across those five studies ranges from 1/2562 to 1/9442 persons. The Moderna COVID-19 vaccine was approved later than Pfizer's; thus, there are less data on the incidence of myocarditis. However, we found that men aged <40 who receive the second dose are at highest risk.

To contextualise the incidence of myocarditis after COVID-19 vaccination, it is helpful to compare the risk to the incidence of myocarditis after influenza vaccination or SARS-CoV-2 infection. Myocarditis is typically not associated with influenza vaccination; thus, there are few, if any reports describing the incidence. On the contrary, myocarditis is a known cardiovascular sequala of COVID-19.13 The CDC estimated that among men 12–17 and 18–29, the incidence of myocarditis and myocarditis or pericarditis was 50.1–64.9 and 55.3–100.6 cases per 100,000, respectively.13 The incidence of myocarditis found for young men after SARS-CoV-2 infection is larger than what we found for myocarditis following COVID-19 vaccination. Moreover, Patone et al showed that the number of excess myocarditis events after SARS-CoV-2 infection was at least four times larger than after either dose 1 or 2 of the AstraZeneca, Pfizer or Moderna vaccine among people of all ages.14 However, when Patone's analysis was limited to those under 40, the number of excess myocarditis events after dose 2 of the Moderna vaccine outnumbered those having had a SARS-CoV-2 infection.14 Furthermore, calculating the incidence of myocarditis after vaccination is relatively precise given that the two inputs, cases of myocarditis and vaccine doses administered, are known. The calculation for estimating the incidence of myocarditis after SARS-CoV-2 infection is more challenging to obtain because the total number of people who have had an infection is likely unknown and unattainable. Studies typically rely on documented infections, which likely suffers the flaw of undercounting the total number of infections because not everyone with the infection has a documented positive test. Thus, the incidence may be inflated and inaccurate. Using seroprevalence data as opposed to documented infections would better capture the total number of infections in a given population, and would more accurately estimate myocarditis post infection."

Very interesting. It's worth adding that myocarditis appears to remain a low absolute risk even in that age group, and COVID-19 poses a range of serious risks in addition to myocarditis.

P.S.: I know the COVID-19 vaccine debate is a bit off topic, but it's very important and impacts most of us, potentially in a big way. I don't want to turn this into a multi-page battle for the last word, just point out the issue bears a look.

 

[Lorenzoid]

A common accusation from past threads on the subject has been that such divers are selfish, jeopardizing dive guides who might need to enact in-water rescues in the event of a crisis, boat staff who might be psychologically traumatized, other divers whose trip might be cut short, etc... There's truth to that...but we put others in some danger when we drive a car on public roads. By choosing to dive, the diver 'votes' he considers the risk low.

The difference between driving and diving is that most of us have comparatively vast personal experience in driving and a web of information in our brains about driving hazards and accidents that we have accumulated over perhaps decades of living our daily lives. In other words, for most of us, our gut feelings when we're out and about driving on public roads about whether the circumstances at hand means the risk to ourselves and others (including effects on potential emergency personnel) is "low" are probably pretty accurate. I don't believe that is true about diving, especially about how our health status might relate to the risks to ourselves and others.

Of course, I'm not sure most general practitioners know very well, either. You hand your doc the form, and unless you've got some giant well-accepted contraindication to diving, they just sign the form. My doc once asked, "How to YOU feel about the risk?" when I handed him the form at my annual physical. I shrugged. I had no idea. But I thought it was interesting that he asked that.

 

[drrich2]

Like many people and likely most people, I did not start annual physicals until I was 50.

I wonder what % of Americans in the 18 to 50 age bracket have a family physician or similar. I grew up mainstream southern blue collar American style. I didn't do 'wellness checks,' never had a Pediatrician (just an Orthopedist when I broke bones), and the idea of seeing physicians when you've no complaint hardly occurred. If I got sore throat, bronchitis, etc..., that's what the immune system was for. It's when old enough to need medications, monitoring and screening tests (e.g.: statins, colonoscopy, blood pressure monitoring) that men get a regular physician (women often younger, for pap smears and mammograms).

A lot of people would just go to an urgent care clinic to get the form filled out by someone unfamiliar with diving.

Another issue has to do with background culture. Some of us spent a lot of our early lives in rural areas. If I wanted to shoot at targets, hike in the woods, fish or whip around country roads on an ATV, I did. I didn't have to get medical clearance or other 'Mother, may I' measures. SB posts reveal a wide range of bureacracy-compliant vs. self-determination perspectives.

 

[tursiops]

bureacracy-compliant vs. self-determination perspectives

Unfortunate dichotomy, with a clear bias involved. One could also call it, "Rule-following vs. sociopathic," or "Information-based vs. ignoring-the information based."

 

[drrich2]

The difference between driving and diving is that most of us have comparatively vast personal experience in driving and a web of information in our brains about driving hazards and accidents that we have accumulated over perhaps decades of living our daily lives.

It is an apples to oranges comparison, granted, but still useful as an analogy. Some factors pro. and con.:

1.) Many of us have to drive - job, food and supplies, etc...
2.) But we drive a lot when we don't have to.
3.) A drive is probably safer than a dive, I'd guess, but outside major cities an adult American probably spends vastly more time driving.
4.) Even putting aside the drunken driving issue that's so despised, how many of us have ever driven when we were sleepy and really shouldn't have?
5.) If I drown on a dive, I'm dead. If I pass out driving, my 55 - 70 mph couple-of-ton metal/rubber/plastic mass may hurtle into another car and take out a whole family.