DIR- GUE Why are non-GUE divers so interested in what GUE does?

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DiR diving is diametrically opposed to notion of solo diving.
And this issue can be quite off-putting. GUE teaches from a dive team approach perspective, to the point where I would not expect them to teach or advocate solo diving. I also understand for a range of the more demanding diving they train with in mind (e.g.: cave and other technical diving), some might reasonably hold the team approach is safer...and while not everyone may agree with it, it's a rational opinion.

I doubt most solo fans have any problem with the above. But somehow the impression has gone beyond that, to the point GUE might be perceived as considering solo wrong and shameful, and if someone who does some solo diving signs up for a GUE Fundies course, he'd better keep his mouth shut about solo. One wonders what happens when a diver with GUE cert.s engages in recreational solo diving of a non-demanding nature (let's say in accordance with solo practices and certified for it), and his old GUE instructor learns of it. What's the response likely to be? Ignore it? Indifferent? Amusement? Critical? Shaming?

What does this look like in real world practice?

Those of us who aren't involved with GUE and have to base our impressions on online discussions may be left wondering what the real truth is.
 
People don’t think twice to spend $1K on a dive computer.
I don't know who you hang out with.... 1k is alot of money , especially in USD.

I did buy that stupid uwatec bottom timer, that was way overpriced for not having user changeable battery. Definitely not a fan. One of the worse pieces of new gear I ever bought,

DiR diving is diametrically opposed to notion of solo diving

I realize that, that is one reason why I probably wouldn't do a course.

Teams sound great, if you live somewhere that there is a team.... if not sometimes solo might be the only option... or a dive buddy that doesn't see the point in drinking the koolaid, and or dedicating crazy amounts of time to an almost religion...

Don't get me wrong, in an ideal world we would do everything the same, look the same, drive the same car, etc but the we will be like robots and very boring...

I am way past a BCD, single tank, and short hose, don't need anyone to fix my gear, I dive all the time like I am solo, and self sufficient, (with in reason, I am not that arrogant) and yes I will admit the my dive buddies probably make me have bad form or habits...

I do like DIR, there is lots of good things to learn, but it definitely has a bad mark in its history, and can be problem even now.
So I dont see what's wrong with other divers wanting to see how GUE does things, ( it's like iron sharpening iron, )
 
I doubt most solo fans have any problem with the above. But somehow the impression has gone beyond that, to the point GUE might be perceived as considering solo wrong and shameful, and if someone who does some solo diving signs up for a GUE Fundies course, he'd better keep his mouth shut about solo.
I dunno, I expect each instructor will have their own opinion on this topic. I would think it would be reasonable to talk about why GUE takes the team approach as opposed to the solo approach. What else is there to say about it really? If a diver wants instruction on solo diving, GUE is just not the right tree to bark at.

One wonders what happens when a diver with GUE cert.s engages in recreational solo diving of a non-demanding nature (let's say in accordance with solo practices and certified for it), and his old GUE instructor learns of it. What's the response likely to be? Ignore it? Indifferent? Amusement? Critical? Shaming?

A GUE instructor doesn’t become your mother just because you took their class. About the worse they can do that I can think of is to disrecommend you for a subsequent class. As an example, let’s say you take fundies and then you become a solo diving advocate and dive solo exclusively afterwards. Your instructor might disrecommend you if you subsequently want to take cave 1 or tech 1.

What does this look like in real world practice?

Those of us who aren't involved with GUE and have to base our impressions on online discussions may be left wondering what the real truth is.

The internet is nothing but a caricature of what happens in real life. I mean, I am sure you know this. Does any of the bullshevik we ague about in scubaboard resemble anything you see on a dive site or a dive boat?
 
People don’t think twice to spend $1K on a dive computer.
You're kidding, right? Yes, Shearwater is the darling of Scubaboard. GUE divers are overrepresented here as well. But go out on a typical dive boat where it's mostly PADI OW divers, and you'll see mostly entry-level Cressi, Mares, and Suunto computers that retail for $300 or less. Some of us do eventually upgrade, on both computers and instruction. I bought my Teric six months after I did my Fundies Part 1 class, so...I would say I thought at least twice.
 
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You're kidding, right? Yes, Shearwater is the darling of Scubaboard. GUE divers are overrepresented here as well. But go out on a typical dive boat where it's mostly PADI OW divers, and you'll see mostly entry-level Cressi, Mares, and Suunto computers that retail for $300 or less. Some of us do eventually upgrade, on both computers and instruction. I bought my Teric six months after I did my Fundies Part 1 class, so...I would say I thought at least twice.
Maybe you are right.

My buddy from open water certification bought a $900 computer. When I asked him if he thought he would take any more scuba classes, he said, ”what for?” For some reason, I that always left me with the impression that there are plenty of new divers willing to plunk down big bucks for computers.
 
I do like DIR, there is lots of good things to learn, but it definitely has a bad mark in its history, and can be problem even now.
So I dont see what's wrong with other divers wanting to see how GUE does things, ( it's like iron sharpening iron, )

Yeah, nothing wrong with getting familiar with stuff that is different than what you are used to. Just pointing out that adopting a lot of DiR concepts could actually be detrimental to a solo diver.
 
DiR diving is diametrically opposed to notion of solo diving. It is all about team. Standardized gear, gas, procedures, etc. Solo diving, by definition, you assume that you are on your own and have to carry all kinds of redundancy that you would not need if you were diving in a team. You don’t need a pony bottle if you have a dive buddy. You don’t take your BC off for any reason when you have a buddy because they can see and fix you the parts of your gear that you cannot access. Heck, even a long hose is pointless if you are a solo diver.

There are individual skills you can learn from DiR diving (eg. propulsion techniques) but those are not unique to DiR.
The challenge with GUE diving as far as I am concerned is the dogma. You must do this, you must do that, you must follow the standards.

Diving isn't like that. You're frequently alone and, to be honest, it's great to be able to bimble around a dive site to enjoy the flora, fauna and wreck for what it is without the hassle of looking after someone else.

There's some great things that came out of the DIR philosophy; sorted skills and a great starting point for kit configuration. However it's not always the right kit configuration for the dive and circumstances.

I could go on with examples, but the DIR community are famously deaf to any form of dissent from the one and only true way to dive. GUE and suchlike can seem more cult-like than pragmatic -- found this in my dalliance with GUE fundies where 'why' questions weren't encouraged as far more experienced divers decided that's the way to do it. It is interesting that many of the GUE people I know are far more flexible in their diving, especially in terms of kit choice.

A self-reliant attitude is critical with diving. Sure, there's extreme expedition diving where the team-oriented approach is critical, but that's not what 99.99% of divers do in their simple wreck, reef, whatever diving. Solo diving imposes great responsibility on yourself to sort your own issues out in advance of them being problems. Think them through before diving; use checklists; rigidly do your solo "buddy" checks. Solo diving, or independent diving as we call it here, is extremely popular as you don't have to arrange for other people to come along to the same dives. Book on a dive boat (aka taxi) and out you go. If people do dive with you, both of you are still diving solo but with other divers.

Kit is configured to work for the conditions found in that diving environment, especially in poor visibility: bungee sidemounting bailouts on both sides to keep them streamlined -- there's no longhose because it's on the bailout -- the stage cylinders don't get jammed in a wreck nor suck your energy as they sway with your finning strokes. Sidemount diving is fantastic in open water, true redundancy and amazing trim. Gasses are what are practically available where boosters aren't common and whatever's available following air tops, such as 80%. No rigid rules about helium; if you're diving at 45m/150ft on air then be more careful -- it's your responsibility to assess your own tolerance to narcosis. Using big reels to send up the self-inflating SMB from the bottom (a requirement around here with the strong currents). GF50:80 and using two or three computers and following their deco plans (ratio deco, words utterly fail me). Helmet mounted torches. Clothes pegs to mark lines.
Heresy. Burn the witch.

Anyway, I find it fascinating seeing how DIR et al will adapt to the rest of the technical diving community. They're not strokes, they do their own thing very successfully without the dogma. TDI, IANTD, even PADI TEC has absolutely caught up and is producing very capable thinking divers. Helium's getting harder to find and a lot more expensive rendering OC deep dives unviable (yes, that word again). CCR will become more popular -- I rarely if ever see any OC divers on deep dives.

Doing It Right for the dive in hand.
 
The challenge with GUE diving as far as I am concerned is the dogma. You must do this, you must do that, you must follow the standards.
If I remember well, you haven't done much GUE training, right? It is the furthest thing from dogma I ever done. Never heard from a GUE instructor "you must do this/that", NEVER.

I could go on with examples, but the DIR community are famously deaf to any form of dissent from the one and only true way to dive. GUE and suchlike can seem more cult-like than pragmatic -- found this in my dalliance with GUE fundies where 'why' questions weren't encouraged as far more experienced divers decided that's the way to do it.
You should report that instructor, that is not how a course should go.


EDIT: Sorry guys, I went too much off topic, I will stop it here.
 
If I remember well, you haven't done much GUE training, right? It is the furthest thing from dogma I ever done. Never heard from a GUE instructor "you must do this/that", NEVER.


You should report that instructor, that is not how a course should go.


EDIT: Sorry guys, I went too much off topic, I will stop it here.
Was a long time ago.

What was important was it showed me the standards required to dive safely, and for that I'm forever grateful.
 
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