The eternal question... Neoprene or Trilam drysuit?

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I have both, just got my shell suit back from a zipper replacement, everyone has their own cold tolerance and that changes, at least it has for me. For my use neoprene is the better choice but being a back zip means I must have someone with me that I trust to zip it, shell I can easily do myself. Yesterday I put on my 200 weight wool base and Hollis 450 insulation and my shell suit to test the zipper so I would know it works before adding a pee valve (another “things change” item that makes the hour plus dives in a drysuit enjoyable) my pool is 55° now, I felt the cold in seconds, not cold enough to get out but without lofting air added the squeeze really took the warm out of the undies quickly. In the neoprene suit I remain warm in the same conditions.

I don’t make or sell any type of wet or drysuit.

The bubble is real, both of my present suits are custom from the same maker, the shell suit has a good size bubble that moves with each and every twist and turn so you just get used to adjusting to the changes, the neo has less air in it and is warmer I can react to things like Sealions buzz by’s with nearly no change since the air movement in the suit is reduced and slowed by the nature of the material. I use the suit for boyancy control with both types, it just works better when you also depend on the loft for warmth, this is a cold water based opinion but if I were in warmer water I wouldn’t bother with a drysuit. Trim is easier in the neo suit, some boyancy is in the material so it can’t shift with movement, my suit is compressed 3mil and the boyancy change with depth is minimal. Trim in a shell suit is a constant adjustment thing, if you go head down air will go to your feet, feet down air goes to your shoulders, in a standard trilam suit there is little you can do about this, it’s a physics thing. Many of my dive buddies use whites or aqualung suits which seems to help greatly with trim due to the outer material maintaining compression.

My choices are to dive in 85° water with no suit as the temps drop I go to varying levels of insulation diving wet until the mid to lower 60’s and than I go dry. From 58° up the shell suit excels because I can subtract layers as needed, below that temp and the neoprene is incredible. These are my temps and everyone else has to go out and learn their own, over time those tolerances will change, pay attention and change with them.


To answer the OP’s question of neoprene or trilam, my answer is yes.:)
 
The bubble is real, both of my present suits are custom from the same maker, the shell suit has a good size bubble that moves with each and every twist and turn so you just get used to adjusting to the changes, the neo has less air in it and is warmer I can react to things like Sealions buzz by’s with nearly no change since the air movement in the suit is reduced and slowed by the nature of the material. I use the suit for boyancy control with both types

This seems to me to be key to understanding the difference in user perception.
 
I use the suit for boyancy control with both types

I find that the amount of air needed to be comfortable in my fusion serves double to control buoyancy until I pass a certain depth....Somewhere at or below 20 meters I have enough air in my suit for comfort and switch to using my wing to maintain neutral buoyancy....as I go deeper and find I need to add air to my suit I only add enough for comfort and the for the balance for buoyancy I continue managing with my wing...but this is really minimal.

-Z
 
As per the title, the eternal question is Neoprene or Trilam drysuit?
By now I have 3 mm for pool training and tropical seas and two pieces 5 mm wetsuit which is enough for the Mediterranean sea in late spring, summer and autumn

I am considering diving in the alpine lakes and in Liguria this winter, and I will need a drysuit
In the beginning I won't buy it, I want to get some experience in diving with different kinds of drysuits on rent before choosing the one I want to buy. Anyway I would like to get some advice on advantages and disadvantages of both types. I noticed there are several old threads but since they look quite old I am opening a new one

Thanks

S...

My first dry suit was a Pinnacle Evo II...Trilam...Latex Seals...Diagonal Front Zipper/zipper flap...Hard Boots...duel cargo pockets...with medium loft undergarment...extremely durable...super warm especially for extended duration Canadian conditions...but...far too much bulk...hard boots prevent the suit from being completely turned inside-out...very heavy...very uncomfortable...found all kinds of excuses not to use it...the suit was sized for my dimensions however there was enough material in this suit for me and two small elephants...good suit for dock work...not much use for anything else...This suit was the suggestion of the dive shop owner...I had something else in mind and if I'd not have caved...my choice was far superior...seldom used...sold to a dock worker...

Second suit...Scuba Pro Ever-Dry Four...3 mm neoprene...neoprene seals...soft feet...durable...very comfortable...single cargo pocket...light Max T-Heat two piece undergarment worked fine...used Scuba Pro Rock Boots...able to turn suit inside-out...nice package of accessories included...
But...rear horizontal zipper...having to have assistance to zip up was not the problem...extreme care was needed when zipping up as the zipper wanted to bite into the inner tongue flap...there was even a warning sheet included with the package...warning of the zipper/flap concern...it's like putting a bump sign on the side of the road and never fixing the bump...I sold the suit after only 11 dives...

Current suit...Custom Tailored...DUI CF 200...DUI's proprietary ''crushed neoprene''...neoprene seals...diagonal front zipper/zippered closure...soft feet...duel zipped cargo pockets/knife sheath...Pee valve...DUI Dry Suit Boots...use Max T-Heat light two piece undergarment and Max T-Heat soxs...just enough material for me...no room for small elephants...can't say enough good things...fabulous suit...leaves everything else for dead...

Safe...Warm diving...
Warren...
 
I think you may be mixing up correlation and causation. And that there may just be a smidgen of confirmation bias as well.
I think if you read and quoted the full post you’d find that you’re wrong. That’s why I said: “this isn’t the reason why I’d get a trilam but...”. It was just an observation.
 
S...

My first dry suit was a Pinnacle Evo II...Trilam...Latex Seals...Diagonal Front Zipper/zipper flap...Hard Boots...duel cargo pockets...with medium loft undergarment...extremely durable...super warm especially for extended duration Canadian conditions...but...far too much bulk...hard boots prevent the suit from being completely turned inside-out...very heavy...very uncomfortable...found all kinds of excuses not to use it...the suit was sized for my dimensions however there was enough material in this suit for me and two small elephants...good suit for dock work...not much use for anything else...This suit was the suggestion of the dive shop owner...I had something else in mind and if I'd not have caved...my choice was far superior...seldom used...sold to a dock worker...

Second suit...Scuba Pro Ever-Dry Four...3 mm neoprene...neoprene seals...soft feet...durable...very comfortable...single cargo pocket...light Max T-Heat two piece undergarment worked fine...used Scuba Pro Rock Boots...able to turn suit inside-out...nice package of accessories included...
But...rear horizontal zipper...having to have assistance to zip up was not the problem...extreme care was needed when zipping up as the zipper wanted to bite into the inner tongue flap...there was even a warning sheet included with the package...warning of the zipper/flap concern...it's like putting a bump sign on the side of the road and never fixing the bump...I sold the suit after only 11 dives...

Current suit...Custom Tailored...DUI CF 200...DUI's proprietary ''crushed neoprene''...neoprene seals...diagonal front zipper/zippered closure...soft feet...duel zipped cargo pockets/knife sheath...Pee valve...DUI Dry Suit Boots...use Max T-Heat light two piece undergarment and Max T-Heat soxs...just enough material for me...no room for small elephants...can't say enough good things...fabulous suit...leaves everything else for dead...

Safe...Warm diving...
Warren...

Warren

What's the quality like.

I was a great fan of DUI suits.
Started with a DUI TLS (Trilaminate).
When I had worn that out, I bought a DUI Crushed Neoprene, just as they switched to rock boots. Absolutely loved the suit, great fit, very comfortable. I wore the suit into the ground, in fact, I carried on diving it well passed its best, even when I was getting wet (which was a mistake).
I also have another TLS, which I have used for overseas trips, and as a spare suit.

I wanted to buy another DUI crushed neoprene. But everyone I new that had one in the more recent history, had had quality issues. Panels that came apart, seams you could see through. Delaminating material.
What was worse was exceptionally poor service, when they had issues.

I am happy to pay the price for a good new suit, but not one were the quality is poor, or with a company that won't stand behind there product.

Currently I have a White's Fusion. Which has been dry, and hardwearing.

Gareth
 
It was just an observation
And I'd still claim that your observation may be tainted by confirmation bias. Mostly because it's at odds with what I've seen, though, even though the multiple of anecdote ≠ data (for both of us).

:)
 
And I'd still claim that your observation may be tainted by confirmation bias. Mostly because it's at odds with what I've seen, though, even though the multiple of anecdote ≠ data (for both of us).

:)

I could be TOTALLY wrong, but my impression was that you were taking @EireDiver606's post as suggesting that a trilam suit gave a diver better trim than using a neoprene suit.

My impression of his post was that he was talking about everyone he's seen who seems to be experienced and really know what they are doing (i.e. good trim and buoyancy). Of those skilled people that he has seen, his observation was that all those people were using trilam.

So, not a causation. But, maybe a correlation between higher skill and higher likelihood of using a trilam.

My personal experience is the same. It seems like all the serious technical divers I know (who are all reasonably to highly skilled) all use trilams. But, that is not enough people, in total, to be considered any kind of valid statistical sampling.

I only know 3 people (besides myself) who use or did use a neoprene (uncompressed, compressed, or crushed). One did use a neoprene suit (an O'Three, IIRC) when he first started technical diving. He now uses a trilam. One who was using a compressed neo and still uses a newer compressed neo (my original suit, which I sold him) as far as I know. And one who uses a neoprene suit not because he prefers a neoprene suit but because he prefers a neoprene neck seal. He only just learned (from me) that Waterproof now offers replaceable neoprene neck seals that work with Si Tech replaceable neck systems. He also has a trilam suit and I won't be surprised if he switches to that full time, as soon as he gets a neoprene neck seal for it.

In contrast to those 3, I know quite a few other tech divers and, as far as I know, they all use trilams.

In the face of indecision, I would say to look around at the divers you can see and identify the ones whose skills and opinions you trust. Then ask them why they do what they do and consider to follow their lead until such time as you develop your own knowledge, experience, and opinion.
 
My impression of his post was that he was talking about everyone he's seen who seems to be experienced and really know what they are doing (i.e. good trim and buoyancy). Of those skilled people that he has seen, his observation was that all those people were using trilam.
Agreed, and one of my points was that that's at odds with my observations. There may be a preponderance of trilams among the experienced/tech crowd (perhaps particularly the tech crowd, since a trilam generally allows more undergarments which are necessary on long dives in the cold-ish waters I dive), but in my world it's far from a 1:1 correlation. I've seen muppets in trilams, and I've seen seriously squared away divers in neoprene drysuits.

Another reason for seeing more muppets in neo suits may be that a neo suit generally is cheaper than a trilam. So the more serious the diver is, the higher the probability that they're willing to spend the money that a trilam (plus good undergarments) costs.
 
the more serious the diver is, the higher the probability that they're willing to spend the money that a trilam (plus good undergarments) costs.

Right. But, if the neo truly does have an advantage in ease of managing "the bubble" and requiring less undies, as has been suggested in this thread, then wouldn't even the serious guys, spending the serious money, choose a neo suit. They could have it made to fit whatever undergarments they want.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/perdix-ai/

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