OWD license without a doctor's certificate?

[SapphireMind]

If you want to have everything and everybody regulated in everything they do, then sure, require an annual -- no, let's say monthly -- full physical. Do we think diving will be safer? After all, they could get real sick in the month since their physical. There is no good solution here, except for the personal responsibility of the diver. This thead is about taking a class, being under instruction, and then the standards aer clear. Arguing about what divers ought to be doing for the rest of their life is just trolling.

These are exactly the people that @caruso thinks ought to just answer NO on the form and lie their way into the class.

Even if the "permission slip" as you call it means they have indeed talked with their doctor? I don't understand your logic.

This is where I see the fallacy - you see how dumb it is to require a monthly full physical, it is up to the personal responsibility of the diver. And it's not just about taking a class, because as I've seen - everyone requires that form to rent gear or take a dive. Not solely while under instruction. If it was only that I'd have less issue with it, though I would argue that everyone should have a doctor's note in that case for instruction.

The "permission slip" is easily faked. It doesn't mean you've actually spoken to anyone or done any thinking. I can talk to my doctor without them signing a form essentially holding them liable if I have an accident or do something stupid. There is no difference between asking someone to say they've talked to their doctor and actually having a note.

 

[caruso]

And you are solely responsible if you should die during a class and the rest of the class has PTSD for the rest of their lives; this is the selfish, sociopathic part of the "just say NO" solution.

What about PTSD suffered by divers who witness a diver expiring during their dive because of a medical condition that wasn't properly addressed and the diver took excess risk by splashing in the first place? Are they excused because current rules don't require that they sign a medical form?

 

[tursiops]

This thread is not about taking a class and being under instruction. It's about a medical form that is required prior to scuba diving.

Read. The. Title. And. The. First. Post.

 

[caruso]

Read. The. Title. And. The. First. Post.

I read it. It's about a medical form required for a scuba diving license. It's not specific to instruction and training. Just like a discussion about how a vision test is required to get a drivers license. It's not about how you get there, it's simply a requirement. We don't bring the driving schools and their instructors into it because it's not relevant.

 

[tursiops]

This is where I see the fallacy - you see how dumb it is to require a monthly full physical, it is up to the personal responsibility of the diver. And it's not just about taking a class, because as I've seen - everyone requires that form to rent gear or take a dive. Not solely while under instruction. If it was only that I'd have less issue with it, though I would argue that everyone should have a doctor's note in that case for instruction.

The "permission slip" is easily faked. It doesn't mean you've actually spoken to anyone or done any thinking. I can talk to my doctor without them signing a form essentially holding them liable if I have an accident or do something stupid. There is no difference between asking someone to say they've talked to their doctor and actually having a note.

Yes, absolutely everything can be faked. But it is usually not.
Please don't take a class from me.

 

[tursiops]

I read it. It's about a medical form required for a scuba diving license. It's not specific to instruction and training. Just like a discussion about how a vision test is required to get a drivers license. It's not about how you get there, it's simply a requirement. We don't bring the driving schools and their instructors into it because it's not relevant.

whatever

 

[caruso]

Please don't take a class from me.

Unnecessary

 

[tursiops]

Unnecessary

Ha! OK, you too.
I can't trust your medical forms.....

 

[SapphireMind]

Yes, absolutely everything can be faked. But it is usually not.
Please don't take a class from me.

And this is why you have people actually hiding diagnoses.

Don't worry, I won't. I have been up front with my instructor about my health issues. No issues.

The vision test is actually a great comparison. According to my driver's license, I don't need glasses. I didn't have them when I got my license. I probably should have, because I'm nearsighted and I'm just really accustomed to reading blurry things, but no matter what, I legally don't need them. I wear them though now even though I could still pass the vision test without them. That vision test isn't very sensitive for many vision problems, it basically weeds out the legally blind. And once I go into renewals, I don't have to take it again.

Edited to provide timeline for glasses: Got new license in late 2017. Decided to suck it up and finally go see an ophthalmologist in early 2018. But my vision hasn't significantly changed - I just got tired of it. Since I'm really good at reading blurry, I have a hard time getting eye doctors to even believe I need glasses.

 

[KenGordon]

Why limit the medical form to students? If we acknowledge that a lot can change in a year, and we must trust the individual diver to check with their doctors, then why don't ALL divers have to sign a medical clearance every year OR no divers have to sign any medical clearance and students and existing divers simply have to be trusted to speak with their doctors every year or when their medical conditions change?

No matter how you slice it, the checkboxes on the medical form which require only a student diver to reveal medical conditions make no sense when the entire diving population is unregulated for all their diving after they're certified.

This happens in some places, Malta for example.