OWD license without a doctor's certificate?

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And you have obviously not been paying attention because it's not a matter of pressure or fluid shifts - remember, I've stated earlier that I've had negative tilt table testing, echocardiagrams etc. I am also very aware of how the vagus nerve works and the method of my personal condition is not affected by pressure.

Wait, you had this workup in a chamber, at depth? Or do you mean you had one of those GI prodromes while diving?
 
However, if a diver isn’t actually not fit to dive and lies on the form then they are exposing the shop/instructor/dive buddies to the risk of being involved in an accident/rescue/death etc. That is not at all for free, there is a risk of physical injury or death for rescuers, aside from all the trauma etc.

Bleating on about liability is missing the point.

No.

If you want to officially assess me as a rescue risk on medical grounds, be a qualified physician acting in professional capacity, covered by doctor-patient, HIPAA, and all other applicable rules and regulations. Privately I don't mind telling you that I'm mildly allergic to cats and dogs and if you let Fluffy sleep on compressor intake while you were filling my tank -- I don't know, I never tried breathing pressurized cat hair -- but clearly you are the one who aren't fit, yet I'm the one who gets to lie on the form.
 
Wait, you had this workup in a chamber, at depth? Or do you mean you had one of those GI prodromes while diving?
No, I've never had any symptoms ever outside of having a GI illness - so I'm usually by a toilet :wink:
 
You and I are never going to agree with each other, but I still feel the need to counter much of what you say.

"we've established that form is really for liability" No such thing has been established. There is no doubt that it does manage liability. But first and foremost, I believe the intent is to educate and inform the diver, and possibly their physician, about some very real and unique physiological hazards with diving. Even if I was magically immune from any possible lawsuit, I would continue to use the form because IT IS THE RIGHT THING TO DO!!

"it doesn't create safety" I have never heard of anything that "creates" safety, but I guess I think I understand what you mean anyway. Just for a moment, consider what would result if there was no proactive attempt whatever to address medical issues upfront with new divers - purely "buyer beware." How many fatalities and crippling injuries would it take to convince you of the need for such a system?

"lying on the form" I'm not going to go find a specific quote of yours, but they are numerous and varied. One of your positions seems to be that in an honor system that does not have rigid double-checks and enforcement, it is justifiable to ignore the system and lie, because others can and do lie also. I vehemently disagree. Back in school, if the teacher always left the room during exams making it easy to cheat with no consequences, that would not justify cheating. No matter how many others do it.

And that is how we arrive at the need I feel to respond to your posts on this thread. I worry that your continued public and vocal stance that a diver should game the system, and even act as their own medical expert, will eventually lead someone reading your posts to act on that advice and suffer severe consequences as a result.

I agree we are likely to not agree, if only because you keep misstating what I say :) I'll address your bolded points in order.

I disagree that a form is a good way to educate. I think the education should be included in the didactic portion of diving classes and that people should feel free to talk about their health, instead of being scared of being judged.

Just because I don't like the form does not mean I think that there is nothing that should be done to proactively address diver safety. See above - I think it should be more thoroughly covered in education. If a medical note is going to be required, it should be required for everyone. I think that will address safety more fully.

No, you are mischaracterizing what I've said. I'm saying that it is not an effective method because if people are going to lie, the form is not stopping them. If they are not safe, the form isn't stopping them. I'm not saying that I advocate lying - in fact, I advocate that we should be able to be far more open and I just do not like the permission slip aspect of the form, and transferring liability to a physician.

I have frequently said that a diver should not be their own medical provider - You don't want to be bothered to look, but it is very clearly stated multiple times. Going to see a doctor and having said issues worked up doesn't mean you have the form signed - that's what I've brought up. You should absolutely have your issues worked up, but the form being signed or not does not change whether you actually had the workup.

It's like telling someone to not steal - if they were planning on stealing, you telling them not to steal isn't going to stop them. If they weren't planning on stealing, you telling them not to steal isn't going to change anything.

You insist the form is perfect the way it is. I'm saying there are better ways to achieve the same thing.
 

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