Yes/No requirement for Med form

[The Chairman]

And yes. We’ve seen many doctor’s approvals for well-controlled diabetes. Never had an issue. Yet.

Again, talk to me about it first. I have yet to see one approval yet. Of course, I usually tell peeps that they are ineligible right off.

 

[Wookie]

Again, talk to me about it first. I have yet to see one approval yet. Of course, I usually tell peeps that they are ineligible right off.

Your approach is interesting to me, only because I followed it at one time also. It was my counsel and insurance company who advised me to allow the doctor to make the call instead of me.

The Spree at one time listed asthma and diabetes as absolute contraindications to diving, with our reasoning very close to yours, I'm sure. But I saw folks using inhalers and shooting insulin, so I called my insurance broker and asked him what my liability was if I made asthma and diabetes disqualifying and then found them on my boat (even a boat ride is enough to screw up a diabetic). He beat me upside the head and asked me about my medical training, and then told me not to pretend I was a doctor. I made the Holiday Inn Express argument to no avail. I stopped asking.

Type 2 diabetes story: We had a person training as a cook, wayyyy back in the day when we ran in Texas with a volunteer crew. I didn't see him much after day 1, so I asked about him. He is seasick I was told. No worries, I get seasick too. On day 3 about 2 in the afternoon, I hadn't seen him still, and Mel made an offhand remark that she saw him the day before when he came up for insulin. WTF?!?!?!?! He had a note from his doctor that he was a well controlled diabetic, and he would be fine. I guess doctors don't understand diabetes. Being seasick for the whole trip had thrown his diet way out of whack and he was in a diabetic coma. We still had 4 hours before we hit the dock, he was out of insulin, and we had no way to monitor his glucose. We were met at the dock by EMS, his blood sugar was over 800, and he was whisked away.

So doctors notes are BS, and this is why we changed our policies.

 

[Lorenzoid]

Sounds like doctors should discuss with their patients not just baseline fitness to dive but also the possible effect of conditions under which the patient intends to dive, such as on a boat far from medical care, with seasickness, etc.

 

[Wookie]

Sounds like doctors should discuss with their patients not just baseline fitness to dive but also the possible effect of conditions under which the patient intends to dive, such as on a boat far from medical care, with seasickness, etc.

Well, I'm sure the doctor is a diver and when a quarry diver thinks diving it's way different than on an expedition boat 110 miles from shore is different than in cave country near Gainesvlle is different than a morning 2 tank in Bonaire is different than heading out to some exotic island 12 hours flight to a poophole, like Bikini.

 

[The Chairman]

So @Wookie If you had known earlier that the cook WAS an insulin dependent diabetic, would you have checked in on him sooner?

My problem isn't so much with a doctor's approval... it's with not knowing about a condition. I want to be prepared, mentally as well as anything else I might need. If I can't make sure that they are going to be safe, I'm siding with "no". Like my cpap. You had to assure me that I had electricity before I got on your boat. I felt it prudent to let you know that I had to have my cpap in order for the rest of the boat to get any sleep and for me to be at my best. I don't have a waiver from my doctor to dive due to being on a cpap. But as the owner of a vessel I'll be on for a few days, you should be privy to that knowledge.

The basic premise wasn't what the lady had, but that she wasn't going to divulge what she had. I have a real problem with that right there.

 

[Wookie]

So @Wookie If you had known earlier that the cook WAS an insulin dependent diabetic, would you have checked in on him sooner?

My problem isn't so much with a doctor's approval... it's with not knowing about a condition. I want to be prepared, mentally as well as anything else I might need. If I can't make sure that they are going to be safe, I'm siding with "no". Like my cpap. You had to assure me that I had electricity before I got on your boat. I felt it prudent to let you know that I had to have my cpap in order for the rest of the boat to get any sleep and for me to be at my best. I don't have a waiver from my doctor to dive due to being on a cpap. But as the owner of a vessel I'll be on for a few days, you should be privy to that knowledge.

The basic premise wasn't what the lady had, but that she wasn't going to divulge what she had. I have a real problem with that right there.

Mel knew he was diabetic, she didn't snap that he might be in distress and not telling us. I hadn't seen him for longer than I thought normal, I didn't know he was diabetic. Had we communicated earlier, we'd have found out he was out of insulin. I'd have been mad, or furious, but I'd have brought the boat home. Because it isn't worth a dive trip to scare me like that. And when someone is unresponsive, I get scared.

 

[scrane]

The form is just for liability, isn't it? Whether you tell the truth or lie is immaterial. Either way the operator is released from liability for accidents that are medically related.

 

[Wookie]

The form is just for liability, isn't it? Whether you tell the truth or lie is immaterial. Either way the operator is released from liability for accidents that are medically related.

Depends. If you see your student who answered no to all questions use their inhaler, who is now liable?

 

[Lorenzoid]

The form is just for liability, isn't it? Whether you tell the truth or lie is immaterial. Either way the operator is released from liability for accidents that are medically related.

To a cold cynic, yes, that's its only purpose. But I would imagine an instructor or dive op would like to do what they can to ensure their customers make it through the course or trip without incident.

 

[bmorescuba]

While I respect any instructor's right to refuse to train a given student, it's discouraging to see people at such a high level on SB outright dismiss the idea of training someone with Type 1 Diabetes (T1D). Everyone emphasizes that they are not medical professionals - so why not take a look at what the actual medical professionals have concluded:

Diving with diabetes: guidelines and latest research

In Summary: "Provided you do not suffer from any long-term complications, diving with diabetes is totally acceptable provided you undergo regular checkups and keep your diabetes well controlled to avoid any potential threats"

It is possible to have very tight control with T1D. In fact, it's not completely dissimilar to learning very good buoyancy, trim, or ascent rates. There's some math, and then some practice, and some rules.

Ultimately, for me, being a scuba diver is about personal responsibility. If I'm of sound mind and clearly understand the risks and measures to mitigate them, and I decide I want to participate in this activity, then I should be able to. Closed mindedness on this topic is what causes a large percentage of students to lie on their medical forms in the first place. Of course, none of that means any given instructor has to train such a student, but I encourage students to seek out the science for themselves, and if the science supports safe diving with your medical condition, find an instructor who is compatible with that.