Diver Training, Has It Really Been Watered Down???

[rsingler]

I am pretty sure you need to have AOW to start the Deep specialty, but that would take a little clarification to be sure.

From the Deep Specialty Instructor manual (2014):
"Student Diver Prerequisites

By the start of the course, a diver must be
1) certified as a PADI Adventure Diver or Advanced Open Water Diver or have a qualifying certification from another training organization.
2) at least 15 years. "

 

[abnfrog]

yes you do need aow to start the deep course

 

[abnfrog]

he beat me too it ....

 

[JamesBon92007]

I've never heard of any certification expiring--did you get that directly from PADI?

I've heard of Discover Scuba expiring and they actually issue a certificate (PADI) but I don't think that quite qualifies as a certification. My girlfriend had 30 days in which she could dive with her instructor after completing the DSD course.

e-Learning expires after one year if you don't complete your OW course (PADI).

I am constantly amazed at how many new divers I meet that refer to their certification as a license. Is someone out there trying to suggest that a C-card is actually a license and insinuating that it will expire at some point? If there is such a thing as an OW certification that expires it might be time for us all to voice our opinion of the matter. If someone wants to take a "refresher" course then that's great and if a dive op does not want someone on their boat (except with a private DM) who has not gone diving for a long time then that is their choice but has someone, somewhere, actually told someone that their C-card has expired? And if you go diving after taking a "Re-Activation" course does that prevent it from expiring?

 

[KevinNM]

Yeah, I did better at depth, both with the combo lock in AOW and the jigsaw puzzle in Deep Course at 120'. Another reason for that may be you're concentrating more at depth because you know you're supposed to have to.

I did the mechanical task just the same, the one requiring more thought was bad. And I realized after the dive that I had never thought to look at my computer or gas pressure at 130, I was sufficiently task loaded by a simple nav exercise that I had no capacity left.

 

[CAPTAIN SINBAD]

a) Students are supposed to do a simulated safety top in a pool, and they are supposed to do safety stops on their OW dives. What is an assisted safety stop?
b) Gas planning is part of the OW class now, but I agree it should be a big part of the AOW deep dive. Students should see for themselves how much faster they will go through air at depth.
c) That is in the OW class.
d) That used to be a standard part of the AOW. It was taken out a number of years ago, and I believe the reason was that the results were not as you state. With MOST of the students I had, they did BETTER at depth than at the surface, probably because their surface performance gave them practice doing a task they had not done in a long time. I tried other tasks, including give students a letter and having them give the preceding 5 letters of the alphabet in reverse order. Again, in MOST cases, they did either just as well at depth or better. There were many threads on ScubaBoard about this back in those days. PADI did not state why they removed that requirement, but I believe it was because students were getting the notion from their success at that test that narcosis was no big deal.

Assisted safety stop = People hanging from a descent line during a safety stop. If they let go of that rope they either sink or they shoot up. This is a problem that I had for a very long time in my early days of diving even though I had all the C cards you mentioned. This is what we see in recreational charters all around the world. People hanging from the rope!

Unassisted Safety stop = What I learnt in technical diving and wish I head learnt earlier. Perform all your basic 6 and valve drills while staying within a few inches of your target depth. GUE Fundies or UTD Essentials are an attempt to introduce this level of buoyancy control at recreational diving and most Open Water and Advanced Open water divers can't pass this course in their first attempt. I could not.

I did not know what SAC, RMV and rock bottom calculations were until tech courses. PADI AOW would give you a ticket to go to 100 without knowing these.

As for Narcosis awareness, PSAI standards state that on order to dive to 90 (which is where their deep training ends) you have to do four dives 60 ft, 70 ft 80 ft and 90 ft. PADI standards (to the best of my understanding) enable an instructor to do a single checkout dive to 70 feet after which they can issue a certification to dive to 100. It seems that this was done to allow land-locked dive shops to sell "PADI Advanced Open Water" certification in areas where they were diving in quarries and there was nothing deeper than 70. Now once you rewrite standards to accommodate all these land locked shops and where Deep course can be done in 70 feet quarry then you also have to address the issue of Narcosis training. An instructor who can take the student all the way down to 100 can show how Narcosis effects at that depth. An instructor trying to do the same at 70 will not be able to because Narcosis is not that obvious. Instead of increasing the minimum depth of certification dives in AOW and losing the affiliation of land locked dive shops PADI then went on to remove the entire section on Narcosis. This to me is a perfect example of diluting training so that we can "teach the world how to dive."

 

[TMHeimer]

If, on the other hand, the instructor is saying that because they need to have AOW to get the Deep Diver specialty and is telling them they need to get AOW in a year to get it, well, I am pretty sure the instructor is not following standards. I am pretty sure you need to have AOW to start the Deep specialty, but that would take a little clarification to be sure.

Yeah, that's the point I missed. Even I'm pretty sure you need AOW to do Deep--Wreck as well. Thus the paper card and instructor not following standards. Wonder where the paper card came from? I think I got one once for finishing OW, and maybe one for EFR, until the plastic ones were mailed. Different situation.
OK cancel that, I spoke before I googled. PADI says you can enrol in Deep course with Adventure Diver or higher. But nothing there about having to finish AOW within a year, so the paper card thing is still in question.

 

[Bob DBF]

. But nothing there about having to finish AOW within a year, so the paper card thing is still in question.

Say the student is an Adventure diver, takes the Deep specialty, how long will the separate adventure dives count towards AOW. If it is a year, the first dive from the Deep would expire for using it for AOW, which would explain the comment.

Unless it was a Deep adventure dive to start with.



Bob

 

[JamesBon92007]

I've heard of Discover Scuba expiring and they actually issue a certificate (PADI) but I don't think that quite qualifies as a certification. My girlfriend had 30 days in which she could dive with her instructor after completing the DSD course.

e-Learning expires after one year if you don't complete your OW course (PADI).

I am constantly amazed at how many new divers I meet that refer to their certification as a license. Is someone out there trying to suggest that a C-card is actually a license and insinuating that it will expire at some point? If there is such a thing as an OW certification that expires it might be time for us all to voice our opinion of the matter. If someone wants to take a "refresher" course then that's great and if a dive op does not want someone on their boat (except with a private DM) who has not gone diving for a long time then that is their choice but has someone, somewhere, actually told someone that their C-card has expired? And if you go diving after taking a "Re-Activation" course does that prevent it from expiring?

This is from PADI's web site:

"*Your PADI certification does not expire. Participation in PADI ReActivate™ is not mandatory, but recommended as an easy way to refresh your foundational scuba safety knowledge and skills if you haven’t been diving in a while. Divers who complete both the knowledge and in-water skill refresher receive a replacement certification card with a “ReActivated thru” date on it."

So, what happens when you reach the "ReActivated thru" date?

 

[TMHeimer]

yes you do need aow to start the deep course

PADI says you just need Adventure Diver. Doesn't say whether to start of finish the Deep Course. Well the course is 4 dives, so when you start, you're just about finished anyway......