Diver Training, Has It Really Been Watered Down???

[CAPTAIN SINBAD]

I have a few issues with Advanced Open Water. The specialty that requires the most training IMO is Deep. This specialty should require the following:

a) Ability to do an unassisted safety stop.
b) Gas planning
c) Very introductory deco (in case you end up in deco what do you do)
d) Narcosis awareness. There are some people who feel that narcosis does not effect them. I used to be one of them. When they are given basic math problems to solve at depth it becomes apparent how much brain function you loose at 100 ft. It will vary from person to person but divers should be made to experience a significant slowing down of thought process.

It is impossible to teach all of this in one single dive. Then there is nonsense that is often squeezed into an Advanced Open Water course that needs no dives. "Boat specialty" and "shore specialty etc." Id rather spend the 5 dives focusing on the above essentials rather than these course fillers. If AOW training was modified along these lines then the AOW course would not be much different than a Deep diving specialty and that I believe is the logical progression in diving education as opposed to "AOW."

 

[boulderjohn]

a) Ability to do an unassisted safety stop.
b) Gas planning
c) Very introductory deco (in case you end up in deco what do you do)
d) Narcosis awareness. There are some people who feel that narcosis does not effect them. I used to be one of them
When they are given basic math problems to solve at depth it becomes apparent how much brain function you loose at 100 ft. It will vary from person to person but divers should be made to experience a significant slowing down of thought process.

a) Students are supposed to do a simulated safety top in a pool, and they are supposed to do safety stops on their OW dives. What is an assisted safety stop?
b) Gas planning is part of the OW class now, but I agree it should be a big part of the AOW deep dive. Students should see for themselves how much faster they will go through air at depth.
c) That is in the OW class.
d) That used to be a standard part of the AOW. It was taken out a number of years ago, and I believe the reason was that the results were not as you state. With MOST of the students I had, they did BETTER at depth than at the surface, probably because their surface performance gave them practice doing a task they had not done in a long time. I tried other tasks, including give students a letter and having them give the preceding 5 letters of the alphabet in reverse order. Again, in MOST cases, they did either just as well at depth or better. There were many threads on ScubaBoard about this back in those days. PADI did not state why they removed that requirement, but I believe it was because students were getting the notion from their success at that test that narcosis was no big deal.

 

[TMHeimer]

Yeah, I did better at depth, both with the combo lock in AOW and the jigsaw puzzle in Deep Course at 120'. Another reason for that may be you're concentrating more at depth because you know you're supposed to have to.

 

[Umuntu]

If AOW training was modified along these lines then the AOW course would not be much different than a Deep diving specialty and that I believe is the logical progression in diving education as opposed to "AOW."

I've never understood why a Deep Specialty course "expires" after one year if not converted into AOW. Other than rapaciously pushing up sales, that is ...

 

[TMHeimer]

I've never understood why a Deep Specialty course "expires" after one year if not converted into AOW. Other than rapaciously pushing up sales, that is ...

I've never heard of any certification expiring--did you get that directly from PADI?

 

[Umuntu]

I've never heard of any certification expiring--did you get that directly from PADI?

My sons did a deep specialty and were told it expires after one year unless they complete AOW. Not an adventure dive whatever. They were given a piece of paper card.

Actually the Re-Acrivate program puts an expiration date on your card. Which is why I consider it a sucker card.

 

[Lake Hickory Scuba]

Actually the Re-Acrivate program puts an expiration date on your card.

My sons did a deep specialty and were told it expires after one year unless they complete AOW. Not an adventure dive whatever. They were given a piece of paper card.

I notice you have listed yourself as a Divemaster here on ScubaBoard. If you are a PADI Divemaster, remember you have access to that information by downloading the PADI Instructor Manual, free of charge, from the PADI webiste. This will allow you to verify standards when an Instructor or Shop tells you something.

 

[boulderjohn]

My sons did a deep specialty and were told it expires after one year unless they complete AOW. Not an adventure dive whatever. They were given a piece of paper card.

Actually the Re-Acrivate program puts an expiration date on your card.
View attachment 443563

I believe you either misunderstood or the instructor misinformed you.

The PADI Deep Specialty requires 4 dives. and it also requires the diver to have either AOW or Adventure Diver certification already. Adventure Diver is a very rare certification, so AOW is essentially a requirement for the Deep specialty. The first dive for that specialty is the same as the AOW deep dive, and the AOW deep dive can count toward the deep specialty, meaning only 3 dives are required. When you get the deep specialty, you get a plastic card with your picture on it, not a paper card.

If you start an AOW class, you have one year to complete it. It is possible to do the 5 AOW dives with different instructors, and there is a paper form that can be used to sign off on each dive. It is possible that your sons did a dive that the instructor believes will count toward the AOW certification and gave you some paperwork for that, but if so, the process being used is, to say the least, unusual.

 

[Umuntu]

I believe you either misunderstood or the instructor misinformed you.

The PADI Deep Specialty requires 4 dives. and it also requires the diver to have either AOW or Adventure Diver certification already. Adventure Diver is a very rare certification, so AOW is essentially a requirement for the Deep specialty. The first dive for that specialty is the same as the AOW deep dive, and the AOW deep dive can count toward the deep specialty, meaning only 3 dives are required. When you get the deep specialty, you get a plastic card with your picture on it, not a paper card.

If you start an AOW class, you have one year to complete it. It is possible to do the 5 AOW dives with different instructors, and there is a paper form that can be used to sign off on each dive. It is possible that your sons did a dive that the instructor believes will count toward the AOW certification and gave you some paperwork for that, but if so, the process being used is, to say the least, unusual.

This is the most plausible explanation. Thanks. I believe they did do more than 4 dives there. I'll check their logbooks.

 

[boulderjohn]

If, on the other hand, the instructor is saying that because they need to have AOW to get the Deep Diver specialty and is telling them they need to get AOW in a year to get it, well, I am pretty sure the instructor is not following standards. I am pretty sure you need to have AOW to start the Deep specialty, but that would take a little clarification to be sure.