LCHF or Ketogenic Diet

[lowviz]

...//... Left out? Sweets, chips, highly refined foods, grains and of course starchy veggies. Its hard to argue agaist this based on any nutritional standard. ...

A word on grains, if I may.

Get a grinder attachment for your Kitchen Aid mixer. Grind your own wheat berries and corn. Make a very thin batter with water and an egg, think crepes. Cook in a skillet with the oil of your choice. These paper thin wraps will go a long way towards curing carb craving.

I'm into sprouting right now. Broccoli and other brassicas are the clear leaders. Chicken, sprouts, veggies, and the salad dressing of your choice in a wrap is quite satisfying.

 

[Storker]

completely understand where you are coming from. This was my party line for most of my adult life. And I am in the medical professional and gave this an similar advice to my patients.

But at least speaking from the USA perspective, this has been a huge failure.

And you don't think that the current situation is caused by people eating way too much refined carbos with no nutritional value except for the calories, like sugar (including HFCS) and refined starch?

Yes, we (general 'we', i.e. the general population) consume way too much carbos. That doesn't mean that we should avoid carbos at all. Paracelsus was a pretty smart guy...

 

[uncfnp]

And you don't think that the current situation is caused by people eating way too much refined carbos with no nutritional value except for the calories, like sugar (including HFCS) and refined starch?

I do think it is. I think it is a combination of empty carbs, fast food, processed foods and yes low fat foods. Because what does the food industry replace those fats with? Processed empty carbs.

 

[Storker]

So... Ditch the fast food, not the carbs. Because the problem isn't the carbs, it's the trash processed food feed many people eat. Cook from scratch, making proper food instead of the crap the food industry is feeding us. And cut out the LCHF BS.

 

[Storker]

Don't forget that as we age we naturally lose muscle mass. Muscles help us schlep our gear...

Muscles also burn calories, fat tissue doesn't (or, more precisely, hardly does). Go on a diet that contains insufficient amounts of carbos (or protein; your body can convert protein to glucose) your body breaks down muscle tissue to feed your brain. End result, you have less muscle tissue and your basic metabolism burns less calories, so you have to diet again. It's a downward spiral.

OTOH, exercise more and reduce your calorie intake moderately, you'll lose fat and build more muscle tissue, leaving you in better shape AND with a higher basic metabolism so you can actually eat more without going flabby again.

 

[RyanT]

<warning, rant>
Back in the Bronze age, when I was in uni, one of the classes I took was biochem. What I learned there has colored my view on LCHF-diets rather dramatically.

1. The brain needs carbos to live. If your diet includes insufficient amounts of carbos, your body will convert muscle protein to glucose to keep your brain alive. That's why fasting and ultra-low-calorie diets rob you of muscle mass.
2. Large intakes of saturated fats are a health risk. Most LCHF-diets are rich in saturated fats, so if you follow a LCHF-diet a lot of your calorie intake will be from saturated fat.
3. Weight loss/gain is the consequence of your energy balance. Take in more calories than you use, and you gain weight.Take in less calories than you use, and you lose weight. It's as simple as that. So, why do LCHF-diets work? Because over time, they kill your appetite. So you take in less calories.
4. The best way to lose weight is to skew the calories in / calories used ratio. Basically, it means eating less and exercising more. IOW, go hungry and spend more time doing unpleasant stuff like getting tired and sweaty.
</rant>

This!!!

And to quote the author Michael Pollan: "Eat food, mostly plants, not too much." And by food, Michael Pollen means anything that doesn't come out of a box. His advice is to eat around the "edges" of most grocery stores where you find fresh produce, eggs, unprocessed meats, etc.

@uncfnp, As humans we have a natural inclination towards salty, high fat foods. Historically those things were difficult to obtain. So it makes sense that our taste for these would ensure that we would ingest these things on the rare occasion we found them. Now this has all changed. Food companies invest a lot of money hiring food chemists to develop processed foods that appeal to this inherent palate we have. The result is that now these high fat, high calorie, nutrient devoid foods are readily available we gravitate towards them. The food companies do a great job of exploiting this.

 

[uncfnp]

So... Ditch the fast food, not the carbs. Because the problem isn't the carbs, it's the trash processed food feed many people eat. Cook from scratch, making proper food instead of the crap the food industry is feeding us. And cut out the LCHF BS.

But Storker, when you do just those things, cut out empty carbs, fast food and junk..add fresh foods, organics and veggies, you are going to be on a low carb diet! Fruits are the conundrum.

 

[tursiops]

While Storker is on his rant, here is mine: our demise is "low-fat foods." Fat and cholesterol have been demonized unjustly, as recent studies show, but the public has not figured that out yet. My secondary rant is those who preach to me about nutrition; you eat what you want, but don't assume that works for me. Not everybody likes arugula or cauliflower, for example; we vary in our taste sensations.

 

[uncfnp]

This!!!

And to quote the author Michael Pollan: "Eat food, mostly plants, not too much." And by food, Michael Pollen means anything that doesn't come out of a box. His advice is to eat around the "edges" of most grocery stores where you find fresh produce, eggs, unprocessed meats, etc.

@uncfnp, As humans we have a natural inclination towards salty, high fat foods. Historically those things were difficult to obtain. So it makes sense that our taste for these would ensure that we would ingest these things on the rare occasion we found them. Now this has all changed. Food companies invest a lot of money hiring food chemists to develop processed foods that appeal to this inherent palate we have. The result is that now these high fat, high calorie, nutrient devoid foods are readily available we gravitate towards them. The food companies do a great job of exploiting this.

I am not advocating ketogenic or even LCHF. I am just exploring nutrition.

I was never a proponent of Atkins or any diet plan for that matter. I always advised lifestyle changes and “healthy eating” but just what does that mean. I admit that I am no longer sure.

Months ago several women at work started a professional, very intensive, weight loss program that was supported by their health insurance. It included a severe caloric restrictive (including carbs) diet with supplements and injections (I am so not a fan of this approach). Most had a fair initial result and one (that approached it almost fanatically) lost a large amount of weigh. Most stalled and now out of the program, they are losing most of the short term benefit. Their bloodwork inproved marginally.

At the same time one of the doctors, not at all over weight but with worsing glucose and cholesterol numbers started a ketogenic diet. He ate well. Now keep in mind that men do much better with diets then women. He lost weight, much more dramatically so then the women on the approved diet. And his bloodwork improved dramatically. This was enough for me to take a second and even a third look at LCHF.

I decided to give it a try. My family are apples, some dramatically so. My mother and brother were both diagnosed with T2D at exactly the same age. I was a chubby child but lost about a third of my body weight in high school, got active and have been relative “healthy” since. But since hitting my 50’s its been tough and the slow weight creep grew faster. I knew and did all the right things but it wasn't working. I was becoming my mother.

Since starting this adventure I have lost about 8 pounds but much more importantly I have lost inches around the waist, pure belly fat. And my “stomach issues” that I have had since childhood are gone. Not just less but gone. Much of the “brain fog” is gone and I rarely crave food. Its anecdotal but that works for me!

So there is no question in my mind that it works in the short term. I wonder about the long term

 

[flyboy08]

but don't assume that works for me. Not everybody likes arugula or cauliflower, for example; we vary in our taste sensations.

I agree! Nutella and Tequila works for me! And anything protein!