Agency codes of conduct vs. "SCUBA lite" products that purport to require no training
- Thread starter 2airishuman
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I'm not based in the USA - but I'll ask the question for those who are. In America is training checked/required in order for you to buy scuba diving equipment? Everywhere in the world, I've dived no one will check levels of training before selling you equipment. Rebreathers new are the exception generally.
If not are your dive shops and websites wreckless to sell you a twinset etc before checking? The argument here is that people need to be informed of all potential problems. When I buy tanks the only thing I'm informed off is the price.
If not are your dive shops and websites wreckless to sell you a twinset etc before checking? The argument here is that people need to be informed of all potential problems. When I buy tanks the only thing I'm informed off is the price.
KevinNM
Contributor
People normally want to see a cert card to rent gear or fill tanks.
Yes. But the companies who can potentially sell this are not renting gear or filling tanks.
A fairer question might be do you need to show proof of training to buy a cylinder or a compressor in your local area?
I don't think these are good products. I am not really defending them. I am 100% certain though that taking a twinset down to 60/70m with no training is more dangerous. People do not lose their minds that people can purchase all the equipment to do that without proof of training.
oldschoolto
Contributor
Going to step out on a limb... I bet I was not the only kid that stuck a garden hose on his snorkel and tried to go diving... And then added a car tire to the hose to push the air down when we figured out you can't breath through a hose without pressure.. This is most likely safer, Not by much....
As a side note.. My cousin posted a link on facebook to one of those things for him and his family to get & use... I sent a message to him... DON"T DO IT, Without some training.. A lot can go wrong really fast...
Jim...
As a side note.. My cousin posted a link on facebook to one of those things for him and his family to get & use... I sent a message to him... DON"T DO IT, Without some training.. A lot can go wrong really fast...
Jim...
Bob DBF
Contributor
I'd just tell them to flush the money down the crapper and cut out the middleman. They are toys at real gear prices and probably be in a closet collecting dust in no time at all.
2., 3. I'm not a "dive professional" so I can say what I want.
SCUBA gear has been available without government restriction for over half a century, I doubt this would change.
However, perhaps the scuba industry might decide to restrict some gear sales in the same manner they restrict air fills.
When I was a kid you could order a SCUBA kit from Sears that included a tank, reg, surface floatation Horsecollar with CO2 detonator, a surface tank pressure gauge, and a phamplet on how to use it. Although the instruction covered the basics, which is how many learned to dive, my dad picked up a book on SCUBA instruction and I had to study that as well. Yes there were more fatalities, by percentage, however there was no SPG, BC, safe second, or any of the lessons that were learned over the last 50 something years I've been diving.
As long as these new kids on the scuba block send out approate warning and training material, I doubt there will be many problems. The biggest issue may be when the purchasers find out they have been ripped off, and quit using it. I
Bob
OP
2airishuman
Contributor
Some are better than others. The Airbuddy appears to be a well-conceived hookah system. I don't think they are out to rip people off, and I don't see anything to suggest that they are over-promoting their product. The only real problem I have with them is that they imply that training isn't necessary. I'm not sure if they're serious about post-sales support, since these systems will require service over time.
The ones based on a ~3cf cylinder and compressor that allows the user to refill it, on the other hand, are likely to disappoint.
Do we still need actual instruction? Can most people learn to SCUBA dive within certain limits from a book or a website? If not, what is it about these systems that make them safer?
OP
2airishuman
Contributor
Gas fills have always been the control point. Sure, there are people out there who have put together home-made hookah systems or repurposed surplus flamethrower compressors, and they've been overrepresented in the accident statistics.
Most places will want to see some sort of advanced certification before filling a twinset with trimix or filling a deco bottle with O2 or a rich nitrox mix.
My opinion is kind of harsh but if people want to use those equipment then they deserve what happens to them. Hard to have any sympathy for people playing Russian Roulette with a semi-auto.
So we'll buy off craigs list (classifieds), black market, in Mexico, and so on. You can't regulate all sales, and if you try the end result is best described as "if you outlaw guns, only outlaw will have guns". Or scuba tanks, as the case may be.
The flip side is e.g. my dive computer's manual starts with a page on how I shouldn't be diving with it, or at all, stating essentially that the device is not fit for its stated purpose. If you take it literally.
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