Amberjack Closure

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Cap335

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Scuba Instructor
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I'm a Fish!
The gulf council is shutting down amberjack season starting March 24 until Jan 1 2018 they say recreational fishermen went over allotment in 2016.
 
@CuzzA, can you tell us why they have no clue? Do you have some fisheries data that contradict NOAA or the Gulf Council?
 
@CuzzA, can you tell us why they have no clue? Do you have some fisheries data that contradict NOAA or the Gulf Council?
Often the council bases their allotment based on what they think rather than what they know. I know nothing about the health of AJ populations, but there are more red snapper than anyone who can remember remembers. Red snapper recreational limits are not based on science, but on wishes and dreams.
 
As Frank said, they have no clue. It's just a guess. Commercial fisherman report all of their catch data. Recreational guys don't as there is no system in place to do it, yet. But if you're a diver, you know that ARS and AJs are stacked thick on every structure and the NOAA and the Gulf Council is wrong.

Not to mention regs and open seasons have been tightened so hard over the years they've hardly been fished by the recreational guys. Hell, last year the ARS season was 10 days and blown out by weather. This year the AJ season lasted less than 3 months, again with mostly foul winter fronts.

Frankly, the whole fishery is screwed up for the average recreational citizen. About the only thing they've done right lately is increase the size limit on hogs and gags. We need a reporting system tied to rec. fishing licenses, until then we'll just beat up on Hogs and Mangrove Snappers. :acclaim:
 
They should step out of recreational fish management and let the state laws where the fish is landed take control.
 
I don't disagree with a reporting system tied to recreational fishing. I also would agree that the fisheries managers don't always get it right. But we have to be careful of a couple of things. First, look up the concept of shifting baselines. We've overfished virtually all of our stocks and our modern assessments of what a particular fish stock should look like is skewed by current views of fish stocks relative to historical populations. For example red snapper can easily live to be over 50 years old. The oldest red snapper caught now is about 14. Given the indeterminate growth pattern of fish (e.g. continuous growth), we've substantially altered both numbers and the overall size/age-class structure of our fisheries. Second, if you think the fisheries managers are wrong, then go collect some systematic data on fish populations, validate your methods, and provide an alternative to fisheries managers. Just pointing a finger and saying the fisheries managers don't know what they are doing doesn't validate your view that fish stocks are healthy. Sure, you may see lots of AJs when you go out, but how does that compare with historical populations and how do these current population sizes influence the health of our overall fish communities. Provide some data and provide an alternative.
 
Second, if you think the fisheries managers are wrong, then go collect some systematic data on fish populations, validate your methods, and provide an alternative to fisheries managers.

Maybe I wasn't clear. No one wants an unhealthy fishery, but the fact of the matter is our tax dollars go to support them to figure it out and put the systems in place. They have not. We have the tech to easily have data recording, but no system in place, so they guess.
 
James, yes, our tax dollars do support the fishery management. I also agree that they need to uphold their obligation to do the best they can. The reality, however, is that fisheries science is woefully underfunded as are all of our sciences in the U.S. To say that they have the tech systems for data recording simply isn't true. Yes, we have a lot of technology now, but the deployment of that technology is far from perfect nor is it always successful. For example, a friend of mine who is a boat captain was recently working with NOAA to estimate baitfish school sizes using cameras deployed from his boat. After an entire day of using drones and ROV cameras, they came up empty handed. Also, just estimating fish numbers and/or sizes is not enough. Here are just a few of the pieces of information that are needed to effectively manage fish stocks for the long term: 1) female size classes (egg # is a function of the cube root of the gut size of females), 2) egg survivorship rates, 3) larval recruitment rates, 4) juvenile growth rates, 5) size at sexual maturity, 6) adult site fidelity (do adults stay on one reef or move between them or migrate long distances?) 7) annual reproductive rate, 8) sex classes (many marine species change sex at different size classes), 8) habitat requirements, and 9) survivorship at each age/size class. There are actually quite a few other pieces of necessary information as well. If fisheries managers have accurate data on all these things, they can actually develop rather good models to regulate catch rates. Unfortunately, many of the things I listed are aspects of basic biology. As amazing as it sounds, we still don't have a good handle on many these aspects of basic biology for our marine fishes. For example, you can't just throw larval amberjack in a tank, manipulate their density, and measure their growth rate. I've done exactly these kinds of studies with some small freshwater fish; unfortunately the life history of many larger marine species just make these kinds of studies unfeasible. So yes, the managers certainly do some guessing, but they are simply doing the best job they can with relatively limited data.

Best,
Ryan
 
But the problem with federal management is that the fishing habits in Florida and Texas are all together different.
The slope of the shelf is much more gradual on the upper Texas coast and Louisiana than it is off of Florida and Alabama which means that it is easier for people to get out to waters deep enough for mature fish in Pensacola than Galveston. That,s why I feel like the states should manage limits and seasons they are closer to where the action is.
 

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